query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation

[Elly Van Gelderen]

`go gentle (into that good night)', as in Dylan Thomas, isn't by itself negative but of course preceded by `do not'

elly

-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion List for ALT [mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Paul Hopper
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 9:11 AM
To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation

An adjective complement of English 'go'  has a negative force, e.g. go bad, bankrupt, missing, crazy, postal [see http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159050.html], but not *cheerful, *prosperous, etc.

- French pas?

Paul Hopper


> Dear David,
>
> In Tamazight of Ayr Ndhir the negator of predications of identity 
> appears to be composed of the negative particle/prefix ur and a form 
> of the verb go -idd
>
> (Penchoen, 1973: 63)
> a.	ism	uryaz-aḏ	ur-idd	ḥusa
> this	man-this	NEG-go	Husa
> ’This man’s name is not Husa’
>
> b.	ur-idd	llə	b ɛaya
> 	NEG-go	play	this
> 	‘This is no game’
>
> I haven't been able to verify this for other varieties of Tamazight.
> Generally, it is my impression that this kind of extension is 
> relatively rare but it may be the case that it just hasn't been 
> studied properly. Matthew Juge (1998) has a paper on the overlapping 
> suppletion between the paradigms of ser and ir in Spanish; these verb 
> share the same suppletive form in the preterite . It's true it is the 
> affirmative variants of the verbs but still.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ljuba
>
> References
> Juge, Matthew. 1998. On the Rise of Suppletion in Verbal Paradigms. 
> Ms., BLS 25.
> Penchoen, Thomas G. 1973. Tamazight of the Ayt Ndhir. Los Angeles:
> Undena Publications.
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Everett, Daniel 
> <DEVERETT at bentley.edu>
> wrote:
>> In Pirahã, David, the relevant construction is:
>>  hi-ab-áo-b-á
>> it-negative-completive-perfective-remote (out of control of speaker)
>>
>> hi-ab-a (without aspectual morphology) is used for 'no' or 'didn't'
>>
>> The former has the sense of 'to have run out' but is very similar in 
>> many contexts to 'allgone.'
>>
>> -- Dan
>>
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2013, at 6:53 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Hello David,
>>>
>>> In Breton, yes.
>>>
>>> Aed   eo      toud
>>> Gone  is3sg   all
>>> "it's all gone"
>>> With the same meaning as in English. In French you have to use the 
>>> verb "partir" = leave, not "aller" = go.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Hewitt
>>> 30 rue Charles Baudelaire
>>> 75012 PARIS
>>> France
>>> s.hewitt at unesco.org
>>> +33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work
>>> +33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile
>>> +33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion List for ALT
>>> [mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David Gil
>>> Sent: 31 January 2013 05:30
>>> To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>>> Subject: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> In English motherese, the expression 'allgone' is often used to 
>>> express a negative concept involving the disappearance or absence of 
>>> an entity previously present.
>>>
>>> I am interested in ascertaining how common or rare it is, 
>>> cross-linguistically, for a verb of motion (eg. 'go') or location (eg.
>>> 'be in') to undergo extension of meaning, or grammaticalization, to 
>>> express various negative concepts, as in the above 'allgone' example.
>>>
>>> The reason behind this query is as follows.  In Roon (an 
>>> Austronesian language of West Papua), the same verb has a range of 
>>> meanings which includes 'be in' and 'disappear'.  (The logic behind 
>>> this would seem to be that if something goes or is located somewhere else, then it is no
>>> longer here.)   In addition, the stem on which this verb is based is
>>> also used to form negative imperatives.  I am currently trying to 
>>> figure out whether to analyze this in terms of macrofunctionality, 
>>> polysemy, or accidental homophony, so whether similar patterns are 
>>> attested cross-linguistically would be of relevance to the choice of 
>>> analysis.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to any responses,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Gil
>>>
>>> Department of Linguistics
>>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Deutscher Platz 
>>> 6,
>>> D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>>
>>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>>> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
>>> Webpage:  http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>
>


--
Paul J. Hopper,
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities Emeritus, Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA 15213, Tel. 412-683-1109, Fax 412-268-7989.

Adjunct Professor of Linguistics,
Department of Linguistics,
University of Pittsburgh.

Senior External Fellow,
School of Linguistics and Literature,
Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS), Freiburg i.Br., Germany