query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
Elly Van Gelderen
ellyvangelderen at ASU.EDU
Thu Jan 31 17:19:50 UTC 2013
`go gentle (into that good night)', as in Dylan Thomas, isn't by itself negative but of course preceded by `do not'
From: Discussion List for ALT [mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Paul Hopper
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 9:11 AM
To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
An adjective complement of English 'go' has a negative force, e.g. go bad, bankrupt, missing, crazy, postal [see http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159050.html], but not *cheerful, *prosperous, etc.
- French pas?
> Dear David,
> In Tamazight of Ayr Ndhir the negator of predications of identity
> appears to be composed of the negative particle/prefix ur and a form
> of the verb go -idd
> (Penchoen, 1973: 63)
> a. ism uryaz-adÌ± ur-idd hÌ£usa
> this man-this NEG-go Husa
> â€™This manâ€™s name is not Husaâ€™
> b. ur-idd llÉ™ b É›aya
> NEG-go play this
> â€˜This is no gameâ€™
> I haven't been able to verify this for other varieties of Tamazight.
> Generally, it is my impression that this kind of extension is
> relatively rare but it may be the case that it just hasn't been
> studied properly. Matthew Juge (1998) has a paper on the overlapping
> suppletion between the paradigms of ser and ir in Spanish; these verb
> share the same suppletive form in the preterite . It's true it is the
> affirmative variants of the verbs but still.
> Best wishes,
> Juge, Matthew. 1998. On the Rise of Suppletion in Verbal Paradigms.
> Ms., BLS 25.
> Penchoen, Thomas G. 1973. Tamazight of the Ayt Ndhir. Los Angeles:
> Undena Publications.
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Everett, Daniel
> <DEVERETT at bentley.edu>
>> In PirahÃ£, David, the relevant construction is:
>> it-negative-completive-perfective-remote (out of control of speaker)
>> hi-ab-a (without aspectual morphology) is used for 'no' or 'didn't'
>> The former has the sense of 'to have run out' but is very similar in
>> many contexts to 'allgone.'
>> -- Dan
>> On Jan 31, 2013, at 6:53 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>>> Hello David,
>>> In Breton, yes.
>>> Aed eo toud
>>> Gone is3sg all
>>> "it's all gone"
>>> With the same meaning as in English. In French you have to use the
>>> verb "partir" = leave, not "aller" = go.
>>> Steve Hewitt
>>> 30 rue Charles Baudelaire
>>> 75012 PARIS
>>> s.hewitt at unesco.org
>>> +33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work
>>> +33/-0 188.8.131.52.42 mobile
>>> +33/-0 184.108.40.206.16 home
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion List for ALT
>>> [mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David Gil
>>> Sent: 31 January 2013 05:30
>>> To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>>> Subject: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
>>> Dear all,
>>> In English motherese, the expression 'allgone' is often used to
>>> express a negative concept involving the disappearance or absence of
>>> an entity previously present.
>>> I am interested in ascertaining how common or rare it is,
>>> cross-linguistically, for a verb of motion (eg. 'go') or location (eg.
>>> 'be in') to undergo extension of meaning, or grammaticalization, to
>>> express various negative concepts, as in the above 'allgone' example.
>>> The reason behind this query is as follows. In Roon (an
>>> Austronesian language of West Papua), the same verb has a range of
>>> meanings which includes 'be in' and 'disappear'. (The logic behind
>>> this would seem to be that if something goes or is located somewhere else, then it is no
>>> longer here.) In addition, the stem on which this verb is based is
>>> also used to form negative imperatives. I am currently trying to
>>> figure out whether to analyze this in terms of macrofunctionality,
>>> polysemy, or accidental homophony, so whether similar patterns are
>>> attested cross-linguistically would be of relevance to the choice of
>>> Looking forward to any responses,
>>> David Gil
>>> Department of Linguistics
>>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Deutscher Platz
>>> D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>>> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
>>> Webpage: http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
Paul J. Hopper,
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities Emeritus, Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA 15213, Tel. 412-683-1109, Fax 412-268-7989.
Adjunct Professor of Linguistics,
Department of Linguistics,
University of Pittsburgh.
Senior External Fellow,
School of Linguistics and Literature,
Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS), Freiburg i.Br., Germany
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