[Lingtyp] common background particles
Jacques Vernaudon
jacques.vernaudon at upf.pf
Wed Dec 5 17:17:47 UTC 2018
Dear Vladimir,
In Tahitian, the equivalent would be the particle "ho'i" :
(1) Tāpati ho'i teie nei mahana.
Sunday this now day
‘But Today is Sunday, you should know it.’
"Ho'i" belongs to the same paradigm as : paha 'maybe', ihoā 'really', pa'i 'I assure you'
(2) Tāpati paha teie nei mahana.
Sunday this now day
‘Today is probably Sunday.’
(3) Tāpati ihoā teie nei mahana.
Sunday this now day
‘Today is really Sunday.’
(4) Tāpati pa'i teie nei mahana.
Sunday this now day
‘Today is Sunday, I assure you.’
Best,
Jacques
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Envoyé: Mercredi 5 Décembre 2018 00:19:39
Objet: Lingtyp Digest, Vol 51, Issue 7
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: common background particles (E. Bashir)
2. Re: common background particles (Randy J. LaPolla)
3. Re: common background particles (Randy LaPolla)
4. Re: common background particles (Paolo Ramat)
5. Re: common background particles (Marcel Erdal)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 17:41:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: "E. Bashir" <ebashir at yahoo.com>
To: Hartmut Haberland <hartmut at ruc.dk>, Vladimir Panov
<panovmeister at gmail.com>, "LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org"
<LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] common background particles
Message-ID: <693785137.1648159.1543945318883 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
There is an element used in Urdu, یوں تو /yū̃ to/ (lit. like.this-TOPICALIZER) which introduces a sentence and means something like 'as is (well) known'.
Elena BashirDepartment of South Asian Languages and CivilizationsThe University of Chicago
From: Hartmut Haberland <hartmut at ruc.dk>
To: Vladimir Panov <panovmeister at gmail.com>; "LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org" <LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] common background particles
#yiv5137538353 #yiv5137538353 -- _filtered #yiv5137538353 {font-family:SimSun;panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} _filtered #yiv5137538353 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5137538353 {panose-1:2 11 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} _filtered #yiv5137538353 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5137538353 {panose-1:2 11 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} _filtered #yiv5137538353 {panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 5 5 3 3 4;} _filtered #yiv5137538353 {panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}#yiv5137538353 #yiv5137538353 p.yiv5137538353MsoNormal, #yiv5137538353 li.yiv5137538353MsoNormal, #yiv5137538353 div.yiv5137538353MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv5137538353 a:link, #yiv5137538353 span.yiv5137538353MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5137538353 a:visited, #yiv5137538353 span.yiv5137538353MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5137538353 p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv5137538353 p.yiv5137538353msonormal0, #yiv5137538353 li.yiv5137538353msonormal0, #yiv5137538353 div.yiv5137538353msonormal0 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv5137538353 span.yiv5137538353EmailStyle18 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv5137538353 .yiv5137538353MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered #yiv5137538353 {margin:3.0cm 2.0cm 3.0cm 2.0cm;}#yiv5137538353 div.yiv5137538353WordSection1 {}#yiv5137538353 See Rie Obe and Hartmut Haberland 2018. [Review of] Naomi Ogi (2017), Involvement and Attitude in Japanese Discourse: Interactive Markers. Nordic Journal of Linguistics 41(1): 117-128 (for Japanese and Scandinavian – minus Icelandic – and references to other languages). Hartmut Haberland
Professor emeritus
Roskilde University
Department of Communication and Arts Universitetsvej 1
DK-4000 Roskilde
Telephone: +45 46742841
Fra: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>På vegne af Vladimir Panov
Sendt: 4. december 2018 17:03
Til: LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org
Emne: [Lingtyp] common background particles Dear collegues, In some languages of Europe (e.g. Russian and German) there are special markers ("particles") that have among their core functions the one of "reminding" the hearer of some common background information that s/he is expected to share with the speaker. Russian: S1: Magazin zakryt. shop closed The shop is closed S2: Konečno, segodnia že voskresen'je of.course today PRT Sunday Of course, (you know that) today is Sunday. In Russian, že has some other prominent functions as well. A very similar meaning is also provided by the sentence-initialved' ("common ground" is its core meaning). For German, the particles jaand, to a certain extent, doch are often descirbed in similar terms. For both German and Russian, these particles have been extensively studied. Markers having this meaning as at least one of the prominent ones are found in many languages the Circum-Baltic region, Eastern and Northern Europe, Finno-Ugric languages of the European part of Russia. However, they seem to be rare or even absent in Romance languages (but are present in Latin), the rest of West Germanic languages and in the Balkans. Arguably, the overt marking of this meaning may be considered an areal feature of this particular macroregion. I would like to ask if anyone is aware of languages beyond Europe that have this type of markers. I am mostly interested in the rest of Eurasia, but not only. Thank you, Vladimir Panov (Vilnius University / Russian Academy of Sciences) _______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 08:51:03 +0800
From: "Randy J. LaPolla" <randy.lapolla at gmail.com>
To: LINGTYP LINGTYP <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] common background particles
Message-ID: <0AC73378-A008-43D5-BB7F-E42425B93292 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Vladimir,
In Mandarin Chinese there is a final particle ma (嘛, not the same as the question marking final particle mā 吗) that is often used when reminding or telling someone information that should be obvious or known already.
男人真心話：哎喲，我們都是人嘛，妳會怕獨處，我當然也會怕，只是我沒有說出口而已
………………………women dou shi ren ma………………………………………………….
1pl all COP human MA
The heart-felt words of a man: Ai (sigh), we are all people (ma), you(F) will be afraid to be alone, I of course also will be afraid, it is just that I have not said it, that's all.
(http://womany.net/read/article/3804 <http://womany.net/read/article/3804>)
Randy
-----
Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA （羅仁地）
Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School of Humanities
Nanyang Technological University
HSS-03-45, 14 Nanyang Drive | Singapore 637332
http://randylapolla.net/
Most recent books:
The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (2017)
https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324 <https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324>
Sino-Tibetan Linguistics (2018)
https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397 <https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397>
> On 5 Dec 2018, at 12:39 AM, David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:
>
> Dear Vladimir,
>
> Malay/Indonesian has such particles.
>
> In Riau Indonesian, Jakarta Indonesian, and several other varieties, your S2 would be rendered as
>
> (1) Kan hari minggu
> PRT day Sunday
>
> in which kan has exactly the function that you describe. In other contexts, the same particle kan has additonal functions, including that of a yes/no tag. Its origin is in a reduced form of the negator bukan.
>
> In Papuan Malay, your S2 would be rendered as
>
> (2) Hari minggu to
> day Sunday PRT
>
> where the same function is borne by the particle to. I have heard at least two proposed etymologies for to: (a) the Dutch particle toch (which I am skeptical about), and (b) the Malay word tau 'know'. I also have my own idea, namely that it comes from the Malay/indonesian word atau 'or' (ultimately from Sanskrit) — but I'm still not sure which of the etymologies is the best ...
>
> David
>
>
> On 05/12/2018 00:03, Vladimir Panov wrote:
>> Dear collegues,
>>
>> In some languages of Europe (e.g. Russian and German) there are special markers ("particles") that have among their core functions the one of "reminding" the hearer of some common background information that s/he is expected to share with the speaker.
>>
>> Russian:
>> S1: Magazin zakryt.
>> shop closed
>> The shop is closed
>>
>> S2: Konečno, segodnia že voskresen'je
>> of.course today PRT Sunday
>> Of course, (you know that) today is Sunday.
>>
>> In Russian, že has some other prominent functions as well. A very similar meaning is also provided by the sentence-initial ved' ("common ground" is its core meaning). For German, the particles ja and, to a certain extent, doch are often descirbed in similar terms. For both German and Russian, these particles have been extensively studied.
>>
>> Markers having this meaning as at least one of the prominent ones are found in many languages the Circum-Baltic region, Eastern and Northern Europe, Finno-Ugric languages of the European part of Russia. However, they seem to be rare or even absent in Romance languages (but are present in Latin), the rest of West Germanic languages and in the Balkans. Arguably, the overt marking of this meaning may be considered an areal feature of this particular macroregion.
>>
>> I would like to ask if anyone is aware of languages beyond Europe that have this type of markers. I am mostly interested in the rest of Eurasia, but not only.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Vladimir Panov
>> (Vilnius University / Russian Academy of Sciences)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>
> --
> David Gil
>
> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>
> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de <mailto:gil at shh.mpg.de>
> Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 09:38:25 +0800
From: Randy LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com>
To: LINGTYP LINGTYP <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] common background particles
Message-ID: <174208B1-FD79-4339-98EA-6FD6D929978A at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Sorry, the free translation of the relevant clause should have been “we are all (or both) human (ma)”
(My ing-gu-ri-shu not so good ma)
Randy
Sent from my iPhone
> On 5 Dec 2018, at 8:51 AM, Randy J. LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Vladimir,
> In Mandarin Chinese there is a final particle ma (嘛, not the same as the question marking final particle mā 吗) that is often used when reminding or telling someone information that should be obvious or known already.
>
> 男人真心話：哎喲，我們都是人嘛，妳會怕獨處，我當然也會怕，只是我沒有說出口而已
> ………………………women dou shi ren ma………………………………………………….
> 1pl all COP human MA
> The heart-felt words of a man: Ai (sigh), we are all people (ma), you(F) will be afraid to be alone, I of course also will be afraid, it is just that I have not said it, that's all.
> (http://womany.net/read/article/3804)
>
> Randy
> -----
> Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA （羅仁地）
> Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School of Humanities
> Nanyang Technological University
> HSS-03-45, 14 Nanyang Drive | Singapore 637332
> http://randylapolla.net/
> Most recent books:
> The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (2017)
> https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324
> Sino-Tibetan Linguistics (2018)
> https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397
>
>
>
>> On 5 Dec 2018, at 12:39 AM, David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Vladimir,
>>
>> Malay/Indonesian has such particles.
>>
>> In Riau Indonesian, Jakarta Indonesian, and several other varieties, your S2 would be rendered as
>>
>> (1) Kan hari minggu
>> PRT day Sunday
>>
>> in which kan has exactly the function that you describe. In other contexts, the same particle kan has additonal functions, including that of a yes/no tag. Its origin is in a reduced form of the negator bukan.
>>
>> In Papuan Malay, your S2 would be rendered as
>>
>> (2) Hari minggu to
>> day Sunday PRT
>>
>> where the same function is borne by the particle to. I have heard at least two proposed etymologies for to: (a) the Dutch particle toch (which I am skeptical about), and (b) the Malay word tau 'know'. I also have my own idea, namely that it comes from the Malay/indonesian word atau 'or' (ultimately from Sanskrit) — but I'm still not sure which of the etymologies is the best ...
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>> On 05/12/2018 00:03, Vladimir Panov wrote:
>>> Dear collegues,
>>>
>>> In some languages of Europe (e.g. Russian and German) there are special markers ("particles") that have among their core functions the one of "reminding" the hearer of some common background information that s/he is expected to share with the speaker.
>>>
>>> Russian:
>>> S1: Magazin zakryt.
>>> shop closed
>>> The shop is closed
>>>
>>> S2: Konečno, segodnia že voskresen'je
>>> of.course today PRT Sunday
>>> Of course, (you know that) today is Sunday.
>>>
>>> In Russian, že has some other prominent functions as well. A very similar meaning is also provided by the sentence-initial ved' ("common ground" is its core meaning). For German, the particles ja and, to a certain extent, doch are often descirbed in similar terms. For both German and Russian, these particles have been extensively studied.
>>>
>>> Markers having this meaning as at least one of the prominent ones are found in many languages the Circum-Baltic region, Eastern and Northern Europe, Finno-Ugric languages of the European part of Russia. However, they seem to be rare or even absent in Romance languages (but are present in Latin), the rest of West Germanic languages and in the Balkans. Arguably, the overt marking of this meaning may be considered an areal feature of this particular macroregion.
>>>
>>> I would like to ask if anyone is aware of languages beyond Europe that have this type of markers. I am mostly interested in the rest of Eurasia, but not only.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Vladimir Panov
>>> (Vilnius University / Russian Academy of Sciences)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>> --
>> David Gil
>>
>> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>> Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
>>
>> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
>> Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
>> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 09:47:20 +0100
From: "Paolo Ramat" <paoram at unipv.it>
To: "Vladimir Panov" <panovmeister at gmail.com>,
<LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] common background particles
Message-ID: <666871FCAEB645E7A736ECB1298859B6 at PaoloPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
S1: Magazin zakryt.
shop closed
The shop is closed *Il negozio è ben chiuso, *Le magazin (c’)est bien fermé
S2: Konečno, segodnia že voskresen'je
of.course today PRT Sunday
Of course, (you know that) today is Sunday. = Naturalmente, oggi è ben domenica, Certes, aujourd’hui c’est bien dimanche
For German, the particles ja and, to a certain extent, doch are often descirbed in similar terms: and also wohl.
Best wishes,
P.Rt.
Prof.Paolo Ramat
Università di Pavia (retired)
Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia, retired)
Editor-in-Chief of the “Archivio Glottologico Italiano”
Societas Linguist. Europ., Honorary Member
Academia Europaea
Piazzetta Arduino 11
I – 27100 Pavia
##39 347 044 98 44 (port.)
##39 0382 27 0 27 (home)
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: Vladimir Panov
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 5:03 PM
To: LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org
Subject: [Lingtyp] common background particles
Dear collegues,
In some languages of Europe (e.g. Russian and German) there are special markers ("particles") that have among their core functions the one of "reminding" the hearer of some common background information that s/he is expected to share with the speaker.
Russian:
S1: Magazin zakryt.
shop closed
The shop is closed
S2: Konečno, segodnia že voskresen'je
of.course today PRT Sunday
Of course, (you know that) today is Sunday.
In Russian, že has some other prominent functions as well. A very similar meaning is also provided by the sentence-initial ved' ("common ground" is its core meaning). For German, the particles ja and, to a certain extent, doch are often descirbed in similar terms. For both German and Russian, these particles have been extensively studied.
Markers having this meaning as at least one of the prominent ones are found in many languages the Circum-Baltic region, Eastern and Northern Europe, Finno-Ugric languages of the European part of Russia. However, they seem to be rare or even absent in Romance languages (but are present in Latin), the rest of West Germanic languages and in the Balkans. Arguably, the overt marking of this meaning may be considered an areal feature of this particular macroregion.
I would like to ask if anyone is aware of languages beyond Europe that have this type of markers. I am mostly interested in the rest of Eurasia, but not only.
Thank you,
Vladimir Panov
(Vilnius University / Russian Academy of Sciences)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 12:19:12 +0200
From: Marcel Erdal <merdal4 at gmail.com>
To: panovmeister at gmail.com
Cc: LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] common background particles
Message-ID:
<CAK8hCby7aWRzuqboupxLi_6a1TV22UA1WVOa8D8Jr+eCK1GraQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Turkish
S1: Dükkân kapalI.
shop closed
The shop is closed
S2: Tabii, bugün pazar ya!
of.course today Sunday PRT
Of course, (you know that) today is Sunday.
The onset particle *hani *is used for reminding the addressee of some
unrealized promise by himself or somebody else.
Marcel Erdal
Am Di., 4. Dez. 2018 um 18:03 Uhr schrieb Vladimir Panov <
panovmeister at gmail.com>:
> Dear collegues,
>
> In some languages of Europe (e.g. Russian and German) there are special
> markers ("particles") that have among their core functions the one of
> "reminding" the hearer of some common background information that s/he is
> expected to share with the speaker.
>
> Russian:
> S1: Magazin zakryt.
> shop closed
> The shop is closed
>
> S2: Konečno, segodnia *že* voskresen'je
> of.course today PRT Sunday
> Of course, (you know that) today is Sunday.
>
> In Russian, *že* has some other prominent functions as well. A very
> similar meaning is also provided by the sentence-initial *ved'* ("common
> ground" is its core meaning). For German, the particles *ja *and, to a
> certain extent, *doch* are often descirbed in similar terms. For both
> German and Russian, these particles have been extensively studied.
>
> Markers having this meaning as at least one of the prominent ones are
> found in many languages the Circum-Baltic region, Eastern and Northern
> Europe, Finno-Ugric languages of the European part of Russia. However, they
> seem to be rare or even absent in Romance languages (but are present in
> Latin), the rest of West Germanic languages and in the Balkans. Arguably,
> the overt marking of this meaning may be considered an areal feature of
> this particular macroregion.
>
> I would like to ask if anyone is aware of languages beyond Europe that
> have this type of markers. I am mostly interested in the rest of Eurasia,
> but not only.
>
> Thank you,
> Vladimir Panov
> (Vilnius University / Russian Academy of Sciences)
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
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