[Lingtyp] Query re pronoun inventories

[Joo Ian]

Thank you Rikker for the helpful information. I had a look at the article (available here<https://www.academia.edu/5487304/The_Gendering_of_Language_A_Comparison_of_Gender_Equality_in_Countries_with_Gendered_Natural_Gender_and_Genderless_Languages>) and what seemed a bit problematic to me was this part:

First, we explored whether geographic region predicted gender equality by comparing differences in gender equality by continent (Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Europe, and Australia). A series of one-way ANOVAs comparing the differences in means by continent suggested that a contrast comparing Eastern (Africa and Asia) versus Western cultures (North and South America, Europe, and Australia) would best represent the variance based on geographic location. Thus, in our final analyses, our indicator of geographic location contrasted countries in Eastern versus Western cultures.

So the control for areality was a binary distinction between Eastern and Western cultures, which I don’t really think is legitimate. For example, in their data, if you look at Latin American countries, most of which speak either Spanish or Portuguese (both gendered), the Global Gender Gap Index is low (=inequality high), and if you look at Middle Eastern countries, most of which speak Arabic dialects (all gendered I think), the GGG Index is low. So I don’t think it’s really fair to do a binary distinction between Eastern/Western cultures and it just seems to me that gender inequality tends to be strong in certain regions which happen to mostly use gendered languages, and saying that the former is the result of the latter seems to be confusing correlation with causation.

>From Taipei,
Ian Joo
http://ianjoo.academia.edu


From: Rikker Dockum<mailto:rikker.dockum at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 3:51 AM
To: Joo Ian<mailto:ian.joo at outlook.com>
Cc: Spike Gildea<mailto:spike at uoregon.edu>; lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Query re pronoun inventories

Dear all,

Using the Global Gender Gap Index, Prewitt-Freilino, Caswell and Laakso 2011<https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-011-0083-5> found that countries with gendered pronouns have less gender equality. However, they only coded for one language per country, and obviously country != language. In couple of years ago Claire Moore-Cantwell (I was a TA) had students in a cogsci class respond to this paper, and divided up the task of identifying and coding GGGI data for the 5 most populous languages per country, then each student wrote a response based on the aggregated data. My recollection is that the effect went away, but then it was not a serious statistical analysis, either.
Responding to Ian's comments on Thai (which is often classed as a 'natural gender' pronoun system but has no grammatical gender), for non-binary gender use, Pavadee Saisuwan 2015<http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780190210366.001.0001/acprof-9780190210366-chapter-10> found that transgender women in Thailand use feminine pronouns much more than cisgendered women, and for different reasons. But the sociolinguistics of cisgendered pronoun use is fuzzier than past work has documented. Use of female 1SG 'chan' by cisgendered straight men is utterly commonplace nowadays--just watch a prime time soap for copious examples. It was never exclusively feminine, really. Lately I also see the male 1SG 'phom' used on social media by young women among their friends (perhaps jocular, and maybe not so widespread yet).
Hope that helps,
Rikker

--
Rikker Dockum
Ph.D. Candidate
Department of Linguistics
Yale University


On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:38 AM Joo Ian <ian.joo at outlook.com<mailto:ian.joo at outlook.com>> wrote:
Dear Spike,
The only society I'm familiar with where the third gender is widely acknowledged is the Thai society, and Thai pronoun are quite binary.
Some pronouns are exclusively used for men (like "phom") and some exclusively for women ("rao" as the 1st pronoun). "Chan" is largely a female 1sg pronoun but I've seen some men use it in certain contexts (such as in pop songs). In sum, there are pronouns that are more masculin and some are more feminine, and I would view the whole schema as largely binary.
>From Taipei,
Ian Joo
http://ianjoo.academia.edu


From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Spike Gildea <spike at uoregon.edu<mailto:spike at uoregon.edu>>
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 11:29:04 PM
To: lingtyp
Subject: [Lingtyp] Query re pronoun inventories

I have been contacted by an undergraduate student who is claiming that gender binary pronouns (masculine, feminine, maybe a neuter) are driven by cultural perspectives that limit the option — i.e., if your culture only recognizs two genders, that makes your pronouns binary, too. The question I asked is what about those cultures with three or four genders (as written up in National Geographic last year)? Do any of them have multiple genders in their personal pronouns, or are they just binary or even non-gendered? Any information and/or references would be welcome!

Best,
Spike
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