[Lingtyp] Quotations of speech vs. quotations of thoughts

Sat Jan 6 19:32:56 UTC 2018

Dear Denys,
to add one more example, in Agul (Lezgic, Nakh-Daghestanian), the main
speech verb 'say' in reported speech constructions sometimes introduces
thoughts, not speech (see ex. 20 here: https://www.academia.edu/3007166/).
This is not found frequently, and there are dedicated verbs of thinking
(complex verbs "thought + do"). These verbs of thinking do not introduce
speech, as far as I know.

Best,
Timur

2018-01-06 22:23 GMT+03:00 JOO Ian <il.y.en.a at outlook.com>:

> Dear Stef,
>
> Your thought that "explicitly marked reported thought (e.g. with a matrix
> verb commonly meaning 'think') is not interpreted as reported speech" is
> interesting, but wouldn't it be possible, on pragmatic grounds, for a verb
> meaning 'to think' to refer to an actual utterance? For example:
>
> "Donald Trump thinks that he should be elected again."
>
> could refer to Trump's actual utterance "I should be elected again".
>
> But I'm not sure if this is a valid counterexample, I would like to know
> what others think.
>
> Ian Joo
> http://ianjoo.academia.edu
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of
> Spronck, Stef <stef.spronck at helsinki.fi>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 7, 2018 2:49:16 AM
>
> *To:* Denys T.
> *Cc:* Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Quotations of speech vs. quotations of thoughts
>
>
> Hi Denys,
>
>
> At the risk of simply restating the two previous responses: I think that
> given the polyfunctionality and high frequency of quotative indexes not
> derived from verbs of speech crosslinguistically (as Ekkehard points out),
> we should be careful to gloss a quotative index as 'say', rather than give
> it a more generic gloss, unless there is construction-independent evidence
> for a 'say' meaning of the lexeme (a point Bill McGregor also makes in a
> recent book chapter about quotative indexes in several Australian
> Aboriginal languages: McGregor, W. B. In: Robering, K. (Ed.) The 'say,
> do' verb in Nyulnyul, Warrwa, and other Nyulnylan languages is monosemic
> Events, Arguments and Aspects: Topics in the Semantics of Verbs,
> Amsterdam/Philadelphia: John Benjamins, 2014, 301-327 (would be happy to
> send you a scanned copy off-list)).
>
>
> That said (!), all descriptions about the polyfunctionality of reported
> speech constructions/quotative indexes I have seen replicate David's
> observation about colloquial Indonesian: reported speech constructions may
> also be interpreted as reported thought, but explicitly marked reported
> thought (e.g. with a matrix verb commonly meaning 'think') is not
> interpreted as reported speech. If anyone has a counterexample to this
> observation I would be very interested!
>
>
> Best,
>
> Stef
>
>
> Stef Spronck
>
> Postdoctoral researcher at the University of Helsinki (HU Humanities
> Programme)
> Section editor
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> Linguistic Typology and Pragmatics at *Open Linguistics
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> https://participationgrammar.net
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>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of
> "Ekkehard König" <koenig at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
> *Sent:* Saturday, 6 January 2018 7:27:11 PM
> *To:* Denys T.
> *Cc:* Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Quotations of speech vs. quotations of thoughts
>
> Dear Denys,
>
> even if this is not exactly the information you were hoping to get, it may
> still be of interest to you:
>
> - in a wide variety of Indo-European languages quotative markers derive
> from deomonstratives of manner, typically from the exophoric use (German
> so; French ainsi, etc.) in combination with verbs of saying or without.
> (cf. pp. 159 of the article attached)
>
> (i)"Bla, bla bla", so die Kanzlerin,...
>
> - as is shown in Güldemann (2008) - also quoted in my article - in many
> African languages manner demonstratives and non-deictic expressions of
> manner provide the main source of quotative markers and in many cases such
> expressions of manner have been reanalysed as verbs of saying [rather than
> the other way round].
>
> - similar sources of quotative markers can be observed in languages from
> other areas, e.g. in Japanese.
>
> Another example from my own language comes to mind: like Dutch (betekenis
> - bedoeling), but in contrast to English, German draws a distinction
> between sentence/word meaning (bedeuten) and speaker/utterance meaning
> (meinen). The latter verb can be used for both saying and thinking, at
> least in certain contexts (Karl meinte....'Karl thought/said').
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ekkehard
>
> -
>
> > Dear colleagues (especially those working with quotative markers and
> > reported speech),
> >
> > in Erzya (Mordvinic, Uralic), the verb merģems with the primary meaning
> > ‘say’ is also used to quote thoughts:
> >
> > (1) Mon merģinģ, ton Saransat.
> > 1sg say.pst.1sg 2sg Saransk.ine.prs.2sg
> > ‘I thought (lit. I said), you are in Saransk’ (Aasmäe 2012: 66).
> >
> > However, out of context, the QI-clause Mon merģinģ would likely be
> > interpreted as ‘I said’ and instead of quotation of thoughts one will get
> > the quotation of speech. It is, of course, not a unique thing that one
> > quotative index (clause) can be used to mark different types of reported
> > discourse. I am wondering whether there is cross-linguistic evidence,
> > pointing that the reading ‘I/you/X said’ is prior to the reading ‘I/you/X
> > thought’ in such cases? For instance, notorious I was like to be
> > interpreted out of context as 'I said' rather than 'I thought'? Or that
> > speech verbs are frequently used to mark mental processes, but not vice
> > versa? Is there any hierarchy in the reading of quotations? Are there any
> > studies that would show that one would be prior to another? Is it even
> > reasonable to expect to find something like this? Any suggestions, hints,
> > (language-specific) examples are more than welcome!
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Have a nice evening!
> >
> > Best wishes from Tartu,
> > Denys Teptiuk_______________________________________________
> > Lingtyp mailing list
> > Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
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> >
>
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