[Lingtyp] Verbal person-number indexing reconstructed for a family/deeper subfamily?

Wed Jun 20 09:47:20 UTC 2018

I apologize to Randy if my wording was discourteous; in any case, whether
Randy and I actually agree or not about the basic facts of the Tangut
indexation system, independently of its historical interpretation, is
something that can be easily determined by reading our articles on this
topic.

Guillaume

2018-06-20 11:13 GMT+02:00 Randy J. LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com>:

> Personal slights aside, Guillaume and I do not disagree on the facts of
> Tangut, just how they figure in the history of the development of
> morphology in the family.
>
> Randy
> -----
> *Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA* （羅仁地）
> Professor of Linguistics and Chinese, School of Humanities
> Nanyang Technological University
> HSS-03-45, 14 Nanyang Drive
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=14+Nanyang+Drive+%7C+Singapore+637332&entry=gmail&source=g>
>  |
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=14+Nanyang+Drive+%7C+Singapore+637332&entry=gmail&source=g>
>  Singapore 637332
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=14+Nanyang+Drive+%7C+Singapore+637332&entry=gmail&source=g>
> http://randylapolla.net/
> Most recent book:
> https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-
> Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20 Jun 2018, at 3:43 PM, Guillaume Jacques <rgyalrongskad at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Ilja,
>
> In Northern America, person indexation is reconstructable for many
> language families.
>
> For Algonquian, Bloomfield, Goddard and a few other scholars have
> establiushed a very rigorous system of reconstruction. A very useful and up
> to date introduction is found in Will Oxford's dissertation:
> https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~oxfordwr/papers/Oxford_William
> _201406_PhD_thesis.pdf
>
> If you are also interested in portmanteau morphemes indexing both subject
> and object, this chapter could also be useful:
>
> Jacques, Guillaume & Anton Antonov. 2018. The direction(s) of analogical
> change in direct/inverse systems. In Fernando Zúñiga &
> Sonia Cristofaro (eds.), Typological hierarchies in synchrony and
> diachrony, 259–289. Amsterdam: Benjamins.
> https://www.academia.edu/6776948/The_direction_s_of_analogic
> al_change_in_direct_inverse_systems
>
> For Siouan, Bob Rankin and John Koontz in particular have made important
> contributions to the reconstruction of person indexation markers, most of
> it is however spread over various unpublished paper (see also the
> Comparative Siouan Dictionary, http://csd.clld.org/). Among the most
> recent contributions on the reconstruction of person indexation in Siouan,
> see (in the same issue of IJAL as Jorge Labrada's article on Saliban
> mentioned above):
>
> Jacques, Guillaume. 2016. On the directionality of analogy in a Dhegiha
> paradigm. International Journal of American Linguistics 8(2):239–248.
> https://www.academia.edu/12796953/On_the_directionality_of_
> analogy_in_a_Dhegiha_paradigm
>
> Additionally, the following unpublished paper could also be useful at
> least for its reference list (I can provide PDF of articles on demand):
> https://www.academia.edu/3758247/Siouan_irregular_inflections
>
> On the other side of the Pacific, in the Sino-Tibetan/Trans-Himalayan
> family, there is, as mentioned by Randy above, a debate concerning the
> antiquity of the indexation system. It is no secret that my views are
> radically opposed to those of Randy, and expressed in particular in the
> following articles:
>
> Jacques, Guillaume. 2012. Agreement morphology: the case of Rgyalrongic
> and Kiranti. Language and Linguistics 13(1). 83–116.
> https://www.academia.edu/1526166/Agreement_morphology_the_
> case_of_Rgyalrongic_and_Kiranti
>
> Jacques, Guillaume. 2016. Le sino-tibétain: polysynthétique ou isolant?
> Faits de langues 47(1). 61–74.
> https://www.academia.edu/30377206/Le_sino-tib%C3%A9tain_
> polysynth%C3%A9tique_ou_isolant
>
> See also a series of recent articles by Scott DeLancey including:
> DeLancey, Scott 2013. The history of postverbal agreement in Kuki-Chin.
> Journal of the Southeast Asian Linguistics Society 6:1-17
> https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/
> 9718/5/DeLancey_HistoryPostverbal2013.pdf
>
> DeLancey, Scott   2014 Second person verb forms in Tibeto-Burman.
> Linguistics of the Tibeto-Burman Area 37 (1), 3-33
> https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.dartmouth.edu/dist/9/82/
> files/2013/07/DeLanceyfullpaper.pdf
>
> DeLancey, Scott   2015 The historical dynamics of morphological
> complexity in Trans-Himalayan. Linguistic Discovery13 (2): 37–56.
> https://journals.dartmouth.edu/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Journals.
> woa/1/xmlpage/1/document/1016
>
> More specifically on Tangut, Randy LaPolla, who relies on second- or
> third-hand sources for his information, is not a reliable source. The
> following articles, based on a first-hand knowledge of Tangut texts, could
> have some usefulness:
>
> Jacques, Guillaume. 2009. The Origin of Vowel Alternations in the Tangut
> Verb. Language and Linguistics 10(1). 17–28.
> http://www.ling.sinica.edu.tw/Files/LL/Docments/Journals/10.
> 1/j2009_1_02_2996.pdf
>
> Jacques, Guillaume. 2016. Tangut, Gyalrongic, Kiranti and the nature of
> person indexation in Sino-Tibetan/Trans-Himalayan. Linguistics
> Vanguard doi:10.1515/lingvan-2015-0033.
> https://www.academia.edu/25078877/Tangut_Gyalrongic_Kiranti_
> and_the_nature_of_person_indexation_in_Sino-Tibetan_Trans-Himalayan
>
> Gong Xun, 2017. Verb stems in Tangut and their orthography, Scripta
> 9:29-48.
> https://www.academia.edu/33277842/Verb_stems_in_Tangut_and_
> their_orthography
>
> However, regardless of the actual antiquity of person indexation, there is
> not yet a complete reconstruction system either for Gyalrongic or for
> Kiranti, though we are working on it. Person indexation affixes (and stem
> alternation that contributes to the indexation of person) have unique
> correspondences, and we still have a long way before we can explain the
> forms in a neogrammarian framework. To have an idea of how complex the
> problem is just for a subgroup (Khaling-Dumi-Koyi) of Kiranti, see:
>
> Jacques, Guillaume. 2016. Tonogenesis and tonal alternations in Khaling.
> In Enrique L. Palancar & Jean Léo Léonard (eds.), Tone and Inflection,
> 41–66. Berlin: Mouton De Gruyter.
> https://www.academia.edu/10516416/Tonogenesis_and_tonal_
> alternations_in_Khaling
>
> Guillaume
>
>
>
> 2018-06-19 21:52 GMT+02:00 Ilja Seržant <ilja.serzants at uni-leipzig.de>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I am looking for families (or subfamilies with a larger time depth) for
>> which verbal person-number subject indexes / "agreement" affixes (featuring
>> the intransitive subject for ergative lgs.) are reconstructed. (I already
>> have data on Dravidian, Semitic, Indo-European, Maya, Finno-Ugric and
>> Turkic but I need more for my study on the dynamics of these).
>>
>> I would be very grateful for any reference.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Ilja
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ilja A. Seržant, postdoc
>> Project "Grammatical Universals"
>> Universität Leipzig (IPF 141199)
>> Nikolaistraße 6-10
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Nikolaistra%C3%9Fe+6-10+04109+Leipzig&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> 04109 Leipzig
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Nikolaistra%C3%9Fe+6-10+04109+Leipzig&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> URL: http://home.uni-leipzig.de/serzant/
>>
>> Tel.: + 49 341 97 37713
>> Room 5.22
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Jacques
> CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
> http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
> http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
>
>
> 2018-06-19 21:52 GMT+02:00 Ilja Seržant <ilja.serzants at uni-leipzig.de>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I am looking for families (or subfamilies with a larger time depth) for
>> which verbal person-number subject indexes / "agreement" affixes (featuring
>> the intransitive subject for ergative lgs.) are reconstructed. (I already
>> have data on Dravidian, Semitic, Indo-European, Maya, Finno-Ugric and
>> Turkic but I need more for my study on the dynamics of these).
>>
>> I would be very grateful for any reference.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Ilja
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ilja A. Seržant, postdoc
>> Project "Grammatical Universals"
>> Universität Leipzig (IPF 141199)
>> Nikolaistraße 6-10
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Nikolaistra%C3%9Fe+6-10+%0D%0A04109+Leipzig&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> 04109 Leipzig
>>
>> URL: http://home.uni-leipzig.de/serzant/
>>
>> Tel.: + 49 341 97 37713
>> Room 5.22
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Jacques
> CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
> http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
> http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
>
>

-- 
Guillaume Jacques
CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
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