[Lingtyp] Verbal person-number indexing reconstructed for a family/deeper subfamily?

Wed Jun 20 11:14:33 UTC 2018

Jensen (1998) demonstrates the reconstructed Proto-Tupí-Guaraní person markers. This article is taken from Handbook of Amazonian languages, vol 4, Desmond C. Derbyshire and Geoffrey K. Pullum (eds.).

Best regards,
Ernei
________________________________
差出人: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> が Guillaume Jacques <rgyalrongskad at gmail.com> の代理で送信
送信日時: 2018年6月20日 18:47
宛先: Randy J. LaPolla
CC: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
件名: Re: [Lingtyp] Verbal person-number indexing reconstructed for a family/deeper subfamily?

I apologize to Randy if my wording was discourteous; in any case, whether Randy and I actually agree or not about the basic facts of the Tangut indexation system, independently of its historical interpretation, is something that can be easily determined by reading our articles on this topic.

Guillaume

2018-06-20 11:13 GMT+02:00 Randy J. LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com<mailto:randy.lapolla at gmail.com>>:
Personal slights aside, Guillaume and I do not disagree on the facts of Tangut, just how they figure in the history of the development of morphology in the family.

Randy
-----
Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA （羅仁地）
Professor of Linguistics and Chinese, School of Humanities
Nanyang Technological University
HSS-03-45, 14 Nanyang Drive<https://maps.google.com/?q=14+Nanyang+Drive+%7C+Singapore+637332&entry=gmail&source=g> |<https://maps.google.com/?q=14+Nanyang+Drive+%7C+Singapore+637332&entry=gmail&source=g> Singapore 637332<https://maps.google.com/?q=14+Nanyang+Drive+%7C+Singapore+637332&entry=gmail&source=g>
http://randylapolla.net/
Most recent book:
https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324

On 20 Jun 2018, at 3:43 PM, Guillaume Jacques <rgyalrongskad at gmail.com<mailto:rgyalrongskad at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Ilja,

In Northern America, person indexation is reconstructable for many language families.

For Algonquian, Bloomfield, Goddard and a few other scholars have establiushed a very rigorous system of reconstruction. A very useful and up to date introduction is found in Will Oxford's dissertation:
https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~oxfordwr/papers/Oxford_William_201406_PhD_thesis.pdf

If you are also interested in portmanteau morphemes indexing both subject and object, this chapter could also be useful:

Jacques, Guillaume & Anton Antonov. 2018. The direction(s) of analogical change in direct/inverse systems. In Fernando Zúñiga &
Sonia Cristofaro (eds.), Typological hierarchies in synchrony and diachrony, 259–289. Amsterdam: Benjamins.
https://www.academia.edu/6776948/The_direction_s_of_analogical_change_in_direct_inverse_systems

For Siouan, Bob Rankin and John Koontz in particular have made important contributions to the reconstruction of person indexation markers, most of it is however spread over various unpublished paper (see also the Comparative Siouan Dictionary, http://csd.clld.org/). Among the most recent contributions on the reconstruction of person indexation in Siouan, see (in the same issue of IJAL as Jorge Labrada's article on Saliban mentioned above):

Jacques, Guillaume. 2016. On the directionality of analogy in a Dhegiha paradigm. International Journal of American Linguistics 8(2):239–248.
https://www.academia.edu/12796953/On_the_directionality_of_analogy_in_a_Dhegiha_paradigm

Additionally, the following unpublished paper could also be useful at least for its reference list (I can provide PDF of articles on demand): https://www.academia.edu/3758247/Siouan_irregular_inflections

On the other side of the Pacific, in the Sino-Tibetan/Trans-Himalayan family, there is, as mentioned by Randy above, a debate concerning the antiquity of the indexation system. It is no secret that my views are radically opposed to those of Randy, and expressed in particular in the following articles:

Jacques, Guillaume. 2012. Agreement morphology: the case of Rgyalrongic and Kiranti. Language and Linguistics 13(1). 83–116.
https://www.academia.edu/1526166/Agreement_morphology_the_case_of_Rgyalrongic_and_Kiranti

Jacques, Guillaume. 2016. Le sino-tibétain: polysynthétique ou isolant? Faits de langues 47(1). 61–74.
https://www.academia.edu/30377206/Le_sino-tib%C3%A9tain_polysynth%C3%A9tique_ou_isolant

See also a series of recent articles by Scott DeLancey including:
DeLancey, Scott 2013. The history of postverbal agreement in Kuki-Chin. Journal of the Southeast Asian Linguistics Society 6:1-17
https://openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/9718/5/DeLancey_HistoryPostverbal2013.pdf

DeLancey, Scott   2014 Second person verb forms in Tibeto-Burman. Linguistics of the Tibeto-Burman Area 37 (1), 3-33
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.dartmouth.edu/dist/9/82/files/2013/07/DeLanceyfullpaper.pdf

DeLancey, Scott   2015 The historical dynamics of morphological complexity in Trans-Himalayan. Linguistic Discovery13 (2): 37–56.
https://journals.dartmouth.edu/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Journals.woa/1/xmlpage/1/document/1016

More specifically on Tangut, Randy LaPolla, who relies on second- or third-hand sources for his information, is not a reliable source. The following articles, based on a first-hand knowledge of Tangut texts, could have some usefulness:

Jacques, Guillaume. 2009. The Origin of Vowel Alternations in the Tangut Verb. Language and Linguistics 10(1). 17–28.
http://www.ling.sinica.edu.tw/Files/LL/Docments/Journals/10.1/j2009_1_02_2996.pdf

Jacques, Guillaume. 2016. Tangut, Gyalrongic, Kiranti and the nature of person indexation in Sino-Tibetan/Trans-Himalayan. Linguistics
Vanguard doi:10.1515/lingvan-2015-0033.
https://www.academia.edu/25078877/Tangut_Gyalrongic_Kiranti_and_the_nature_of_person_indexation_in_Sino-Tibetan_Trans-Himalayan

Gong Xun, 2017. Verb stems in Tangut and their orthography, Scripta 9:29-48.
https://www.academia.edu/33277842/Verb_stems_in_Tangut_and_their_orthography

However, regardless of the actual antiquity of person indexation, there is not yet a complete reconstruction system either for Gyalrongic or for Kiranti, though we are working on it. Person indexation affixes (and stem alternation that contributes to the indexation of person) have unique correspondences, and we still have a long way before we can explain the forms in a neogrammarian framework. To have an idea of how complex the problem is just for a subgroup (Khaling-Dumi-Koyi) of Kiranti, see:

Jacques, Guillaume. 2016. Tonogenesis and tonal alternations in Khaling. In Enrique L. Palancar & Jean Léo Léonard (eds.), Tone and Inflection, 41–66. Berlin: Mouton De Gruyter.
https://www.academia.edu/10516416/Tonogenesis_and_tonal_alternations_in_Khaling

Guillaume

2018-06-19 21:52 GMT+02:00 Ilja Seržant <ilja.serzants at uni-leipzig.de<mailto:ilja.serzants at uni-leipzig.de>>:
Dear all,

I am looking for families (or subfamilies with a larger time depth) for which verbal person-number subject indexes / "agreement" affixes (featuring the intransitive subject for ergative lgs.) are reconstructed. (I already have data on Dravidian, Semitic, Indo-European, Maya, Finno-Ugric and Turkic but I need more for my study on the dynamics of these).

I would be very grateful for any reference.

Best,

Ilja

--
Ilja A. Seržant, postdoc
Project "Grammatical Universals"
Universität Leipzig (IPF 141199)
Nikolaistraße 6-10<https://maps.google.com/?q=Nikolaistra%C3%9Fe+6-10+04109+Leipzig&entry=gmail&source=g>
04109 Leipzig<https://maps.google.com/?q=Nikolaistra%C3%9Fe+6-10+04109+Leipzig&entry=gmail&source=g>

URL: http://home.uni-leipzig.de/serzant/

Tel.: + 49 341 97 37713
Room 5.22

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--
Guillaume Jacques
CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
http://panchr.hypotheses.org/

2018-06-19 21:52 GMT+02:00 Ilja Seržant <ilja.serzants at uni-leipzig.de<mailto:ilja.serzants at uni-leipzig.de>>:
Dear all,

I am looking for families (or subfamilies with a larger time depth) for which verbal person-number subject indexes / "agreement" affixes (featuring the intransitive subject for ergative lgs.) are reconstructed. (I already have data on Dravidian, Semitic, Indo-European, Maya, Finno-Ugric and Turkic but I need more for my study on the dynamics of these).

I would be very grateful for any reference.

Best,

Ilja

--
Ilja A. Seržant, postdoc
Project "Grammatical Universals"
Universität Leipzig (IPF 141199)
Nikolaistraße 6-10<https://maps.google.com/?q=Nikolaistra%C3%9Fe+6-10+%0D%0A04109+Leipzig&entry=gmail&source=g>
04109 Leipzig

URL: http://home.uni-leipzig.de/serzant/

Tel.: + 49 341 97 37713
Room 5.22

_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp

--
Guillaume Jacques
CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
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--
Guillaume Jacques
CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
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