[Lingtyp] Applicative and preposition
Martin Haspelmath
haspelmath at shh.mpg.de
Wed Oct 17 20:18:58 UTC 2018
On 17.10.18 20:52, Peter Arkadiev wrote:
> There are languages, most notably Northwest Caucasian and Kartvelian,
> where arguments introduced by applicatives are coded as ditransitive
> Rs rather than as monotransitive Ps. We can certainly invent a
> different comparative concept for this (e.g. "version", to adapt the
> traditional Caucasological term), but the similarities between
> "applicatives" and "versions" seem to be more important than
> differences, so it would be better to have a common comparative
> concept subsuming both
OK, so here's a proposal: "applicative" is a construction in which a new
P-like object is added, and "versiative" is a construction in which a
new (indirective-)R-like object is added (inspired by Russian "versija",
or version). They are both subtypes of a more general concept, perhaps
called "objectative".
One could also have another subtype, e.g. "adpositive", for a verbal
marker that adds a new adpositionally marked argument. Then Simon
Musgrave's original examples would be objectatives, both of the
applicative and the adpositive sort.
These neologisms may sound strange, but it's actually just a historical
accident that we don't have such terms in common use. The fact that
"applicative" is a commonly used term does not mean that there must be a
natural cross-linguistic phenomenon that corresponds to the term.
Best,
Martin
> --
> Peter Arkadiev, PhD
> Institute of Slavic Studies
> Russian Academy of Sciences
> Leninsky prospekt 32-A 119991 Moscow
> peterarkadiev at yandex.ru
> http://inslav.ru/people/arkadev-petr-mihaylovich-peter-arkadiev
> 17.10.2018, 18:07, "Martin Haspelmath" <haspelmath at shh.mpg.de>:
>> I think the answer to Adam's question is that a construction is an
>> applicative only if the new object is coded like the P-argument of a
>> basic transitive construction.
>>
>> Thus, Simon Musgrave's example (1c) from Taba (based on Bowden 2001)
>> is an (instrumental) applicative:
>>
>> npun-ak kolay peda
>> kill-APPL snake machete
>>
>> But when the instrument 'machete' has its instrumental preposition
>> (ada peda 'with a machete'), it is not an applicative, from a
>> typological perspective (= as a comparative concept).
>>
>> There is no "official" definition of the (typological) term
>> "applicative", of course, but it is my understanding that most people
>> use the term in this way. The Wikipedia article reflects this by
>> speaking about promotion to "(core) object":
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicative_voice.
>>
>> (Maria Polinsky's WALS article is vague and speaks just about
>> "increasing the number of object arguments by one", without making
>> precise what is meant by "object", https://wals.info/chapter/109. But
>> her examples and the discussion make it clear that she means objects
>> coded like P-arguments.)
>>
>> This does not mean, of course, that the description of Taba should
>> not use the term "Applicative" for the suffix -ak in all cases – but
>> this would be a language-specific descriptive category, somewhat like
>> Dative is used in Russian-type languages also when the case in
>> question is not used in its definitional function (recipient of 'give').
>>
>> Best,
>> Martin
>>
>> On 17.10.18 16:45, Adam James Ross Tallman wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I know of some phenomena that is similar to this (I think) in
>>> Chácobo and other languages. But I have a question about terminology
>>> here. Why is it still an applicative if a (n oblique?) postposition
>>> is marked on the "promoted" argument? What are the criteria that
>>> identify it as "promoted" in this case (non-repeatability, position
>>> in clause etc...). Or is there some type of semantic criterion at
>>> work here?
>>> best,
>>> Adam
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 9:36 AM Françoise Rose
>> <francoise.rose at univ-lyon2.fr <mailto:francoise.rose at univ-lyon2.fr>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Simon,
>>
>> Thanks for your query, it’s very interesting.
>>
>> I just gave a talk at SWL8 on an applicative construction of
>> Mojeño that is correlated with the presence of verbal classifiers
>> that refer to a location. When such a verbal classifier is
>> present, the “coreferential” NP can be expressed as an object
>> rather than an oblique (i.e. it loses its preposition, as in the
>> second example below). Interestingly, there is some variation.
>> The preposition can be maintained in the locative phrase, even
>> when the verbal classifier is present, but there is then no
>> valency change (so the construction does not count as an
>> applicative). Intransitive verbs take a 3rd person subject
>> t-prefix, while transitive verbs take some semantically more
>> specific prefixes for 3rd person when the object is third person
>> also (as in the second example). So this case is not exactly what
>> you were looking for, but the presence of three alternates here
>> is interesting: the construction of example 3 could well be an
>> intermediate step in the development of the applicative effect of
>> classifiers.
>>
>> t-junopo=po
>>
>>
>>
>> *te*
>>
>>
>>
>> to
>>
>>
>>
>> smeno
>>
>> 3-run=pfv
>>
>>
>>
>> *prep*
>>
>>
>>
>> art.nh
>>
>>
>>
>> woods
>>
>> 'S/he ran *to/in/from* the woods.'
>>
>> ñi-jumpo*-je*-cho
>>
>>
>>
>> to
>>
>>
>>
>> smeno
>>
>> 3m-run*-clf:interior*-act
>>
>>
>>
>> art.nh
>>
>>
>>
>> woods
>>
>> S/he runs *inside* the woods.
>>
>> t-jumpo*-je*-cho
>>
>>
>>
>> *te*
>>
>>
>>
>> to
>>
>>
>>
>> smeno
>>
>> 3-run*-clf:interior*-act
>>
>>
>>
>> *prep*
>>
>>
>>
>> art.nh
>>
>>
>>
>> woods
>>
>> S/he ran inside the woods.
>>
>> The slides from my presentation can be downloaded from SWL8 website.
>>
>> Very best,
>>
>> Françoise ROSE
>>
>> Directrice de Recherches 2ème classe, CNRS
>>
>> Laboratoire Dynamique Du Langage (CNRS/Université Lyon2)
>>
>> 16 avenue Berthelot
>>
>> 69007 Lyon
>>
>> FRANCE
>>
>> (33)4 72 72 64 63
>>
>> www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE <http://www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE>
>>
>> *De :*Lingtyp [mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>] *De la part
>> de* Simon Musgrave
>> *Envoyé :* mercredi 17 octobre 2018 07:16
>> *À :* LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> <mailto:LINGTYP at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> *Objet :* [Lingtyp] Applicative and preposition
>>
>> Dear Lingtyp members,
>>
>>
>> I am posting this query on behalf of one of my PhD students. We
>> will post a summary of responses in due course.
>>
>> From existing studies of applicatives, only two Austronesian
>> languages, Taba and Indonesian, have been documented to
>> unexpectedly retain a preposition when an applicative affix is
>> used to promote a previously non-core object to core.
>> Bowden, in his grammatical description of Taba (2001), states
>> that it is possible for the same idea to be expressed using three
>> possibilities. Firstly, that the third entity is introduced by a
>> preposition, secondly that the applied object is marked by an
>> applicative morpheme and thirdly that the applied object can be
>> marked by an applicative morpheme and preposition, as the
>> following examples show.
>>
>> (1)a. Ahmad npun kolay
>> Ahmad 3SG=kill snake
>> ‘Ahmad killed a snake.’
>>
>> b. Ahmad npun kolay ada peda PREPOSITION
>> Ahmad 3SG=kill snake with machete
>> ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a machete.’
>>
>> c. Ahmad npunak kolay peda APPLICATIVE
>> Ahmad 3SG=kill-APPL snake machete
>> ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a machete.’
>>
>> d. Ahmad npunak kolay ada peda BOTH
>> Ahmad 3SG=kill-APPL snake with machete
>> ‘Ahmad killed a snake with a machete.’ (2001:204)
>>
>>
>> Sometimes Indonesian clauses with applicative verbs suffixed with
>> –kan retain the preposition directly following the verb when it
>> is expected to have been lost according to conventional grammar
>> rules, as shown in 2.
>>
>> (2)a. Yang penting saya sangat men-cinta-i Sandy
>> REL important 1SG very meN.love.APPL Sandy
>> dan meny-enang-kan atas semua ke-jadi-an itu
>> meN-senang-kan
>> and meN-pity-APPL on all event that
>> ‘What is important is that I love Sandy and regret everything
>> that happened.’ (Musgrave 2001:156)
>>
>> b. Kami juga sudah mem-bicara-kan dengan
>> pem-erintah pusat
>> 2PL also already meN-talk-APPL with government
>> central
>> di Jakarta soal rencana men-ambah beasiswa Jerman
>> in Jakarta matter plan meN-increase
>> scholarship German
>> untuk Indonesia…
>> for Indonesia
>> ‘We have also spoken with the central government in Jakarta
>> about the plan to increase German scholarships to Indonesia.’
>> (Quasthoff & Gottwald 2012: indmix_565272)
>>
>>
>> Previous studies of Indonesian have noted the co-occurrence of
>> applicatives and prepositions and have usually made passing
>> comments often speculating that this feature is prevalent in
>> non-standard Indonesian.
>>
>> Our query is whether any list subscribers know of other languages
>> which show this phenomenon and has anyone written about it?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any information which you can share!
>>
>> Best, Simon
>>
>>
>> References
>> Bowden, John. 2001. Taba: Description of a South Halmahera
>> language. Canberra: Pacific Linguistics.
>> Musgrave, Simon. 2001. Non-subject arguments in Indonesian. The
>> University of Melbourne. (PhD thesis).
>> Quasthoff, Uwe & Sebastian Gottwald. 2012. Leipzig corpus
>> collection. (Ed.) Uwe Quasthoff & Gerhard Heyer. University of
>> Leipzig. http://corpora2.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Simon Musgrave *
>>
>> Lecturer
>>
>> *School of Languages, Literatures, Cultures and Linguistics*
>>
>> Monash University
>>
>> VIC 3800
>>
>> Australia
>>
>> T: +61 3 9905 8234
>>
>> E: simon.musgrave at monash.edu <mailto:name.surname at monash.edu>
>>
>> monash.edu <http://monash.edu/>
>>
>> Secretary, Australasian Association for the Digital Humanities
>> (aaDH <http://aa-dh.org/>)
>>
>>
>> Official page <http://profiles.arts.monash.edu.au/simon-musgrave/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Adam J.R. Tallman
>> Investigador del Museo de Etnografía y Folklore, la Paz
>> PhD, UT Austin
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> --
> Martin Haspelmath (haspelmath at shh.mpg.de <mailto:haspelmath at shh.mpg.de>)
> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
> Kahlaische Strasse 10
> D-07745 Jena
> &
> Leipzig University
> Institut fuer Anglistik
> IPF 141199
> D-04081 Leipzig
>
>
>
>
>
> ,
>
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--
Martin Haspelmath (haspelmath at shh.mpg.de)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
D-07745 Jena
&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
IPF 141199
D-04081 Leipzig
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