[Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?

Ludwig Paul ludwig.paul at uni-hamburg.de
Thu Jan 3 14:51:03 UTC 2019

Dear Ian,

Persian has gozAshtan (with long A) "put; let (do), allow".


Zitat von Joo Ian <ian.joo at outlook.com>:

> Dear Frans and Harmut,
> I think the European verbs of ‘put/leave’ are a bit different. They  
> cannot describe the action of letting go of something you’re holding  
> on without moving it. However the ‘put-let go’ verbs I mentioned can  
> do so.
>   1.  Fang4 ta1 de shou3 ‘To let go of his/her hand’ (Mandarin)
>   2.  Son-ul noh-ta 'to let go of the hand’ (Korean)
>   3.  гараа тавих ‘to let go of the hand’ (Mongolian)
>   4.  tso tes ‘to let go of the hand’ (White Hmong)
> For German, for example, Hand lassen cannot express ‘to let go of  
> the hand’, it has to be Hand loslassen.
> A semi-exception would be Italian lasciare which can mean ‘to let  
> go’ and ‘to leave (something somewhere)’.
>   1.  Lasciare la mano ‘To let go of the hand’
>   2.  Lasciare il libro sul tavolo ‘To leave the book on the table’
> But lasciare is still not the “primary” (or the most basic, most  
> frequent) verb for ‘to put’ as I have clarified in my first mail.  
> The primary verb is mettere. I don’t know much about Greek but αφήνω  
> (after some dictinoary search) seems more like Italian lasciare as  
> well.
> Regards,
> Ian
> ________________________________
> From: Hartmut Haberland <hartmut at ruc.dk>
> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:40:23 PM
> To: Frans Plank; Joo Ian
> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Subject: SV: [Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?
> Exactly, Frans (also MGreek αφήνω ’let, let go’, German lassen).
> Sie können ihren Mantel hier lassen
> could be translated by ‘You can leave your coat here’ but also ‘You  
> can put your coat her’ because putting it there implies leaving it  
> there and vice versa.
> Maybe the whole issue is an artefact of our use of English as a  
> metalanguage: ‘to put’ has an extremely wide range of possible  
> meanings.
> Hartmut Haberland
> Professor emeritus
> [RUC]
> Roskilde University
> Department of Communication and Arts
> Universitetsvej 1
> DK-4000 Roskilde
> Telephone: +45 46742841
> Fra: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> På vegne af  
> Frans Plank
> Sendt: 3. januar 2019 14:34
> Til: Joo Ian <ian.joo at outlook.com>
> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org; Meichun Liu <meichunliu0107 at gmail.com>
> Emne: Re: [Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?
> What about English, German, all the rest?
> She put the book on the table
> Sie legte/stellte/setzte/hängte das Buch/Glas/Kaninchen/Bild in den  
> Kühlschrank
> Don’t all these placing verbs imply that you let go?
> The synthetic causatives of the corresponding inchoative verbs (with  
> the local dative rather than the directional accusative occurring  
> with the same prepositions) would work, too, and perhaps even better:
> Sie ließ das Buch … liegen/stehen/sitzen/hängen [after she put it there]
> This is German:  I can gloss it for you if you want.  But you  
> probably don’t, because this is not exactly what you’re after :-)
> Season’s Greetings all the same!
> Frans
> On 3. Jan 2019, at 13:08, Marcel Erdal  
> <merdal4 at gmail.com<mailto:merdal4 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Old Turkic (Mongolia, Xinjiang) kod- 'to put down, place' and 'to  
> abandon, give up, leave alone, desert' (e.g. in G. Clauson's  
> dictionary).
> Marcel
> Am Do., 3. Jan. 2019 um 12:02 Uhr schrieb Joo Ian  
> <ian.joo at outlook.com<mailto:ian.joo at outlook.com>>:
> Dear all,
> I wonder if you know any language where the primary morpheme meaning  
> 'to put' and the one meaning 'to let go (to seize holding  
> something)' are the same.
> At this point I only know four: Mandarin (fàng), Korean (noh),  
> Mongolian (tav), and White Hmong (tso).
> They are all spoken in East Asia (with White Hmong spreading out to  
> SE Asia), so I wonder if this feature is unique to this area.
> Regards,
> Ian JOO (주이안)
> http://ianjoo.academia.edu<http://ianjoo.academia.edu/>
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