[Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature? (in Tahitian)

Thu Jan 3 22:59:03 UTC 2019

Dear Ian,
In tahitian, TU'U means both 'to put' and 'to let go'.
Best,
Jacques

cf. dictionnaire de l'Académie tahitienne : http://www.farevanaa.pf/dictionnaire.php
TU'U
v.t. 1°) Donner. 'Ua rave ihora 'oia i te pāne, ha'amaita'i atura i te Atua, vāvahi ihora, tu'u atura ia rātou ra = Il prit du pain, rendit grâce, le rompit et le leur donna (Luk 22/19). Cf. HŌ (5), HŌRO'A. 2°) Poser. 'A tu'u i te faraoa i ni'a i te 'aira'a mā'a = Pose le pain sur la table. 3°) Mettre. 'A tu'u i te moni i roto i te 'āfata = Mets l'argent dans la caisse. 4°) Apposer (signature). 'Ua tu'u 'oe i tō ‘oe rima i raro a'e i taua parau ra = Tu as apposé ta signature sur ce document. Cf. TU'URIMA. 5°) Transmettre. E ha'apa'o ho'i te mau Phārisea 'e te 'Āti Iuda ato'a ra i te peu i tu'ua mai e te feiā tahito = En effet, les Pharisiens et tous les Juifs observent les coutumes qui ont été transmises par les anciens (Mar 7/3). ...i te fa'a'orera'a i te parau a te Atua i tā 'outou parau i tu'uhia mai i ha'amauhia e 'outou na = ...annulant la parole de Dieu par des traditions que vous avez établies vous-mêmes (Mar 7/13). 6°) Livrer quelqu'un. Nā tō ‘oe iho fenua 'e nā te mau tahu'a rarahi ra 'oe i tu'u mai iā'u nei = Ce sont les gens de ton pays et les grands prêtres qui t'ont livré à moi (Ioa. 18/35). 7°) Lâcher, libérer, céder, laisser filer (cordage). 'A tu'u iāna 'ia haere noa ana = Laisse-le partir. 'A tu'u i tenā tipi ! = Lâche ce couteau ! 'Aore roa rā mātou i tu'u = Mais nous n'avons pas cédé (Gal. 2/5). 8°) Faire partir quelqu'un. 'Ua tu'u atura te mau taea'e ia Paulo rāua 'o Sila i reira ra i Berea i te ru'i = Et aussitôt les frères firent partir de nuit Paul et Silas à Bérée (Ohi. 17/10). 'Ua tu'u atura te mau taea'e ia Paulo i reira ra e fa'ahua haere 'oia nā tai = Et aussitôt les frères firent semblant de faire partir Paul par mer (Ohi. 17/14). , v.i. Partir sur un bateau. 'Ua parau atu 'oia ia rātou : " E fano tātou i terā pae roto " ; tu'u atura rātou = Il leur dit : "Cinglons de l'autre côté du lac" ; et ils partirent (Luk. 8/22). Haere atura mātou i ni'a i te hō’ē pahī 'Aderamitio, 'ua tu'u atura = Nous montâmes sur un navire d'Adramitique et nous part◊mes (Ohi. 27/2).

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: PUT=LET GO: An areal feature? (Ludwig Paul)

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 15:51:03 +0100
From: Ludwig Paul 
To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?
Message-ID:
        <20190103155103.Horde.0THeOWB9E126VnfIwSqty2k at webmail.rrz.uni-hamburg.de>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes

Dear Ian,

Persian has gozAshtan (with long A) "put; let (do), allow".

Best,
Ludwig

Zitat von Joo Ian :

> Dear Frans and Harmut,
>
> I think the European verbs of ‘put/leave’ are a bit different. They  
> cannot describe the action of letting go of something you’re holding  
> on without moving it. However the ‘put-let go’ verbs I mentioned can  
> do so.
>
>
>   1.  Fang4 ta1 de shou3 ‘To let go of his/her hand’ (Mandarin)
>   2.  Son-ul noh-ta 'to let go of the hand’ (Korean)
>   3.  гараа тавих ‘to let go of the hand’ (Mongolian)
>   4.  tso tes ‘to let go of the hand’ (White Hmong)
>
> For German, for example, Hand lassen cannot express ‘to let go of  
> the hand’, it has to be Hand loslassen.
> A semi-exception would be Italian lasciare which can mean ‘to let  
> go’ and ‘to leave (something somewhere)’.
>
>
>   1.  Lasciare la mano ‘To let go of the hand’
>   2.  Lasciare il libro sul tavolo ‘To leave the book on the table’
>
> But lasciare is still not the “primary” (or the most basic, most  
> frequent) verb for ‘to put’ as I have clarified in my first mail.  
> The primary verb is mettere. I don’t know much about Greek but αφήνω  
> (after some dictinoary search) seems more like Italian lasciare as  
> well.
>
> Regards,
> Ian
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hartmut Haberland 
> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 9:40:23 PM
> To: Frans Plank; Joo Ian
> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Subject: SV: [Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?
>
> Exactly, Frans (also MGreek αφήνω ’let, let go’, German lassen).
>
> Sie können ihren Mantel hier lassen
> could be translated by ‘You can leave your coat here’ but also ‘You  
> can put your coat her’ because putting it there implies leaving it  
> there and vice versa.
> Maybe the whole issue is an artefact of our use of English as a  
> metalanguage: ‘to put’ has an extremely wide range of possible  
> meanings.
> Hartmut Haberland
> Professor emeritus
> [RUC]
>
> Roskilde University
> Department of Communication and Arts
> Universitetsvej 1
> DK-4000 Roskilde
> Telephone: +45 46742841
>
>
> Fra: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> På vegne af  
> Frans Plank
> Sendt: 3. januar 2019 14:34
> Til: Joo Ian 
> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org; Meichun Liu 
> Emne: Re: [Lingtyp] PUT=LET GO: An areal feature?
>
> What about English, German, all the rest?
>
> She put the book on the table
> Sie legte/stellte/setzte/hängte das Buch/Glas/Kaninchen/Bild in den  
> Kühlschrank
>
> Don’t all these placing verbs imply that you let go?
> The synthetic causatives of the corresponding inchoative verbs (with  
> the local dative rather than the directional accusative occurring  
> with the same prepositions) would work, too, and perhaps even better:
>
> Sie ließ das Buch … liegen/stehen/sitzen/hängen [after she put it there]
>
> This is German:  I can gloss it for you if you want.  But you  
> probably don’t, because this is not exactly what you’re after :-)
>
> Season’s Greetings all the same!
> Frans
> On 3. Jan 2019, at 13:08, Marcel Erdal  
> > wrote:
>
> Old Turkic (Mongolia, Xinjiang) kod- 'to put down, place' and 'to  
> abandon, give up, leave alone, desert' (e.g. in G. Clauson's  
> dictionary).
> Marcel
>
> Am Do., 3. Jan. 2019 um 12:02 Uhr schrieb Joo Ian  
> >:
> Dear all,
> I wonder if you know any language where the primary morpheme meaning  
> 'to put' and the one meaning 'to let go (to seize holding  
> something)' are the same.
> At this point I only know four: Mandarin (fàng), Korean (noh),  
> Mongolian (tav), and White Hmong (tso).
> They are all spoken in East Asia (with White Hmong spreading out to  
> SE Asia), so I wonder if this feature is unique to this area.
> Regards,
> Ian JOO (주이안)
> http://ianjoo.academia.edu
>
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