[Lingtyp] passive and tense
Pier Marco Bertinetto
piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it
Sat Nov 9 22:25:51 UTC 2019
Thanks Juergen.
Just two quick notes (this is not the place for a lengthy discussion):
- Our 2015 does not show relevant differences in the treatment of
actionality by Italian and (Austrian) German children;
- A statement about "atelic" predicates should be valid for all of them; if
it only describes the behavior of stative predicates, then the correlation
must be modified accordingly.
Best regards
Pier Marco
Il giorno sab 9 nov 2019 alle ore 21:49 Bohnemeyer, Juergen <
jb77 at buffalo.edu> ha scritto:
> Dear Pier Marco — That’s very interesting! But it doesn’t surprise me.
> First off, activities seem quite amorphous as a class in terms of their
> fine-grained aspectual properties. Secondly, many languages - including
> English, as opposed to Dutch and German - have dynamicity-based aspect
> marking, which overrides the telicity-based implicatures. These languages
> have grammaticalized progressive/imperfective marking, but restricted to
> dynamic descriptions. As a result, aspectually unmarked (e.g., simple past
> in English) dynamic descriptions are interpreted perfectively, whereas
> stative descriptions are interpreted imperfectively. It would be surprising
> (to me, anyway) if children weren’t influenced by these language-specific
> differences. But, I can’t begin to speculate whether that’s the case with
> Italian-learning children. — Best — Juergen
>
> > On Nov 9, 2019, at 1:35 PM, Pier Marco Bertinetto <
> piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Juergen,
> > the sort of correlations you point out have often been observed in adult
> speech and are in fact quite pervasive. Andersen and Shirai proposed their
> "prototype account",
> >
> > Shirai, Yasuhiro & Roger W. Andersen. 1995. The acquisition of
> tense-aspect morphology: A prototype account. Language 71. 743−762.
> >
> > suggesting that children exaggerate somehow such correlations at the
> very initial stage of learning, before converging with adult usage.
> However, in
> >
> > Bertinetto, Pier Marco; Lenci, Alessandro; Freiberger, Eva Maria;
> Noccetti, Sabrina; Agonigi, Maddalena 2015. The acquisition of tense and
> aspect in a morphology-sensitive framework. Data from Italian and Austrian
> German children. Linguistics 53,5. 1113-1168.
> >
> > it was shown that the second correlation does not mirror the actual
> facts. It only works for stative verbs, while activities (although
> belonging to the atelic class) have a quite flexible behavior and show
> differences in the individual children. By lumping together statives and
> activities one loses the opportunity to have a neat picture of the
> children's acquisition strategies.
> > Best
> > Pier Marco
> >
> >
> >
> > Il giorno sab 9 nov 2019 alle ore 19:05 Bohnemeyer, Juergen <
> jb77 at buffalo.edu> ha scritto:
> > Dear Sergey et al. — In the developmental literature, there’s been much
> discussion of the following statistical patterns, supported by data from
> studies going back to the 1970s:
> >
> > telic descriptions ~ past-time reference
> > atelic descriptions ~ non-past-time reference
> >
> > In Bohnemeyer & Swift (2004: 291-293), we argue that these correlations
> may be mediated by viewpoint aspect:
> >
> > telic descriptions ~ perfective aspect ~ past-time reference
> > atelic descriptions ~ imperfective aspect ~ non-past-time reference
> >
> > We offer a Gricean account of the first part of these, the
> telicity-aspect patterns.
> >
> > Now for several reasons, it also seems very plausible that passives
> would be more frequent with telic descriptions than with atelic ones.
> Mostly because passives would seem to tend to occur with topical, and thus
> predominantly (semantically) definite, themes.
> >
> > (If any LingTypers are aware of adult language corpus data backing any
> of the above correlations up - or not! - I’d be grateful for references.)
> >
> > Best — Juergen
> >
> > Bohnemeyer, J. & M. D. Swift. (2004). Event realization and default
> aspect. Linguistics & Philosophy 27(3): 263-296.
> >
> > > On Nov 9, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Sergey Lyosov <sergelyosov at inbox.ru>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Ksenia,
> > >
> > > thank you very much for the reference!
> > >
> > > Sure, passive participles are often perfective, while A/S participles
> are cursive/imperfective/habitual. This is the case for most (perhaps all)
> Semitic languages.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Sergey
> > >
> > > Пятница, 8 ноября 2019, 23:39 +02:00 от Ksenia Shagal <
> ksenia.shagal at gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > Quite in line with Martin's work (1994), I discussed this (to a
> certain extent) in relation to asymmetry in participial systems.
> Participles specializing in S/A relativization (active) often refer to
> habitual events, while participles specializing in P(/S) relativization
> (passive or "absolutive") are mostly perfective or resultative. This seems
> relevant, since participles are a well-known source of ergativity in
> independent clauses, and in some languages they are involved in the
> formation of passive constructions. This topic is touched upon in sections
> 3.3.5, 7.2.1 and 7.5.2 of both the dissertation and the book:
> > >
> > > Shagal, Ksenia. 2017. Towards a typology of participles. Helsinki:
> University of Helsinki doctoral dissertation. (
> https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/177418/Towardsa.pdf)
> > > Shagal, Ksenia. 2019. Participles: A typological study. Berlin: Mouton
> de Gruyter.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Ksenia
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Peter Arkadiev <peterarkadiev at yandex.ru>
> wrote:
> > > I'm wondering why I haven't got Sergey's original message... And this
> is not the first time I only see the replies to a posting on this list
> without receiving the original.
> > > To Sergey's question, Emma Geniušienė reports that in the Lithuanian
> texts she has analysed, the passive is more than two times more frequently
> used in the *present* tense than in the past, see "Passive Constructions in
> Lithuanian" (Benjamins, 2016), p. 141.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > --
> > > Peter Arkadiev, PhD
> > > Institute of Slavic Studies
> > > Russian Academy of Sciences
> > > Leninsky prospekt 32-A 119991 Moscow
> > > peterarkadiev at yandex.ru
> > > http://inslav.ru/people/arkadev-petr-mihaylovich-peter-arkadiev
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 08.11.2019, 20:33, "Haspelmath, Martin" <haspelmath at shh.mpg.de>:
> > > > Yes, I found this discussed by Comrie in 1981, and discussed it
> myself in 1994:
> > > >
> > > > Comrie, Bernard. 1981. Aspect and voice: Some reflections on perfect
> and passive. In Philip J. Tedeschi & Annie Zaenen (eds.), Tense and aspect
> (Syntax and Semantics 14), 65–78. New York: Academic Press.
> > > > Haspelmath, Martin. 1994. Passive participles across languages. In
> Barbara Fox & Paul J. Hopper (eds.), Voice: Form and function (Typological
> Studies in Language), 151–177. Amsterdam: Benjamins.
> doi:10.1075/tsl.27.08has. (https://zenodo.org/record/227097)
> > > >
> > > > But there must be more recent work about this as well.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > > > On 08.11.19 18:19, Sergey Lyosov wrote:
> > > >> Dear colleagues
> > > >>
> > > >> Working with corpora of certain Semitic languages, I noticed that
> passive verb forms are much more frequent in the past tenses than in
> present and future tenses. This is also my impression of various languages
> with which I am familiar but have not studied their verbal systems. Does
> such cross-linguistic feature exist? If yes, how do we explain it?
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes,
> > > >>
> > > >> Sergey
> > > >
> > > > -- Martin Haspelmath (haspelmath at shh.mpg.de) Max Planck Institute
> for the Science of Human History Kahlaische Strasse 10 D-07745 Jena &
> Leipzig University Institut fuer Anglistik IPF 141199 D-04081 Leipzig
> > > > ,
> > > >
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Sergey Lyosov
> > >
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> > --
> > =========================================================
> >
> > nuovo numero di telefono
> >
> > |||| Pier Marco Bertinetto
> > ------ Linguistica Generale
> > /////// Scuola Normale Superiore
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> Juergen Bohnemeyer, Professor and Director of Graduate Studies
> Department of Linguistics and Center for Cognitive Science
> University at Buffalo
>
> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus * Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall,
> Buffalo, NY 14260
> Phone: (716) 645 0127
> Fax: (716) 645 3825 * Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu * Web:
> http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/
>
> Office hours M 12:30 – 1:30pm / W 1:00 – 1:50 / F 12:30 – 1:50pm
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>
> There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In (Leonard
> Cohen)
>
>
--
=========================================================
nuovo numero di telefono
|||| Pier Marco Bertinetto
------ Linguistica Generale
/////// Scuola Normale Superiore
------- p.za dei Cavalieri 7
/////// I-56126 PISA
------- fax: +39/050/563513
/////// phone: +39/050/509111
------- HOME
/////// via Matteotti 197
------- I-55049 Viareggio LU
/////// phone: +39/0584/*652417*
------- cell.: +39/368/3830251
=========================================================
"ELiTe (Experimental Linguistics Team"
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"Laboratorio di Linguistica" <http://linguistica.sns.it>
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