[Lingtyp] Plural markers on (already) plural pronouns

[David Gil]

Dear Ponrawee and others,

Following up on Sebastian's posting (below):  In many dialects of 
Malay/Indonesian, the word "orang" functions as a marker of plurality on 
pronouns — either synchronically or diachronically. The base form of the 
pronoun to which "orang" is added may itself be unspecified for number, 
singular, or plural — in which latter case, the resulting construction 
satisfies Ponwaree's request for double plural marking on pronouns.  For 
example, in some eastern varieties of Malay, the 1st person plural 
pronoun "kita" may take "orang", resulting, after reduction, in forms 
such as "kitong", "katong", "torang", "tong" and others.  Sri Lankan 
Malay "kithang", cited by Sebastian, is also one such form, so, 
diachronically, "kithampada" is actually a case of triple plural marking.

Another source of multiple number marking on pronouns in 
Malay/Indonesian is reduplication.  All pronouns may occasionally be 
reduplicated (I don't quite understand the function of reduplication in 
these cases, though in general, reduplication is often used to mark 
plurality).  So, for example, in (mesolectal) Papuan Malay, the 3PL 
pronoun "mereka" can be reduplicated, yielding "mereka-mereka", 
resulting in double plural marking. Indeed, even double plural marked 
pronouns such as those in the preceding paragraph may be reduplicated, 
resulting in triple plural marking, e.g. (basilectal) Papuan Malay 
"kitong-kitong".

David


On 16/11/2019 00:05, Sebastian Nordhoff wrote:
> Hi Ponrawee,
> Sri Lanka Malay has "kithang" '1pl' and "kithampada" '1pl', where 
> "pada" is a plural marker. Same for second person plural 
> "lorang/lorampada" and third person "derang/derampada".
> Best wishes
> Sebastian
>
>
>
> On 11/15/19 5:01 PM, Ponrawee Prasertsom wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have been looking at a number of Tai languages and found that in 
>> some of these languages, plural pronouns can optionally take a plural 
>> marker normally used on common nouns. For instance, in Shan 
>> (Southwestern Tai), the third person plural pronoun /khau/ can 
>> optionally take the plural marker /cɯ(nai)/, viz. /khau cɯ(nai)--/at 
>> least according to Cushing 1871.
>>
>> Assuming this analysis is correct (if it's not please kindly inform 
>> me), I'm wondering how rare this is for pronouns? A quick lookup 
>> revealed that a similar phenomenon called "double plural marking" is 
>> found in some languages, but seems to be restricted to common nouns 
>> only. Does anyone know of any other instances like this for pronouns 
>> in other languages?
>>
>> Sources: Cushing, Josiah Nelson. Grammar of the Shan Language. 
>> Rangoon: American Mission Press, 1871.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> -- 
>> Ponrawee Prasertsom
>>
>> Graduate Student
>> Department of Linguistics
>> Faculty of Arts, Chulalongkorn University
>> Bangkok, Thailand
>>
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-- 
David Gil

Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany

Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
Office Phone (Germany): +49-3641686834
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81281162816