[Lingtyp] R: Languages that lack syntactic self-embedding (Kilu von Prince)

Sat Apr 25 10:41:22 UTC 2020

Dear Paolo,

I tried to access http://tedlab.mit.edu/piraha/piraha_corpus/, but I had
a "Not found" error . Are you sure about the address you gave ?

Sincerly,
Jocelyn

Le 24/04/2020 à 11:18, Paolo Ramat a écrit :
> Dear Kilu,
> concerning the discussion about Piraha you certainly know
> the on line discussion by Piantadosi, Stearns, Everett and Gibson: http://tedlab.mit.edu/piraha/piraha_corpus/
> 
> Best,
> Paolo
> 
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Lingtyp [mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org] Per conto di Adam Singerman
> Inviato: giovedì 23 aprile 2020 19:12
> A: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Oggetto: Re: [Lingtyp] Languages that lack syntactic self-embedding (Kilu von Prince)
> 
> Dear Kilu,
> 
> I'd recommend that you look at the debate in volume 85 of Language (2009). Andrew Nevins, David Pesetsky and Cilene Rodrigues critiqued many of Daniel Everett's claims re: Pirahã. Everett replied to their article, and Nevins, Pesetsky and Rodrigues then replied to his reply.
> DOI: https://doi.org/10.1353/lan.0.0107
> 
> Another article that you should look at (from volume 93 of Language) is "NP recursion over time: Evidence from Indo-European," by Widmer, Auderset, Nichols, Widmer and Bickel. DOI:
> https://doi.org/10.1353/lan.2017.0058
> 
> A more recent book that you might want to check out is "Recursion Across Domains," which examines evidence for and against recursive syntactic structure in a range of languages (including quite a few from Brazil). "Recursion Across Domains" was given two different reviews in Language, one exceptionally critical (by Everett and
> Gibson) and the other quite positive (by Norbert Hornstein). If you read those reviews then you should also look at Rodrigues's response to Everett and Gibson, available here:
> https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/004928
> 
> All the best,
> Adam
> 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:05 PM
> <lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Languages that lack syntactic self-embedding (Kilu von Prince)
>>    2. Re: predicative possession (Fany Muchembled)
>>    3. Re: R: predicative possession (Raffaele Simone)
>>    4. Re: predicative possession (Hilary Chappell)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:08:42 +0200
>> From: Kilu von Prince <watasenia at gmail.com>
>> To: "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"
>>         <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> Subject: [Lingtyp] Languages that lack syntactic self-embedding
>> Message-ID:
>>         
>> <CAK3VzUnvR+_d3rNakviiFU5P8hmjGREysaPrjKPtpSNEbfTQ5g at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I'm trying to get an overview of languages that have been described as 
>> lacking (certain types of) syntactic embedding, such as Teiwa, 
>> Kayardild or Pirahã.
>>
>> In particular, I'm interested in languages that do not allow for 
>> (certain types of) subordinate clauses. Evidence for lack of iterated 
>> possessive NPs (Mary's mother's house) or PPs (the pen on the book on 
>> the desk) would also be of interest to me.
>>
>> Feel free to send me your references and examples directly, I promise 
>> to compile a summary of all informative responses and post it to the list.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Kilu
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:05:18 +0000
>> From: Fany Muchembled <fany.muchembled at tec.mx>
>> To: Sergey Loesov <sergeloesov at gmail.com>,
>>         "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org"
>>         <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] predicative possession
>> Message-ID:
>>         
>> <SN6PR05MB64157C7F5653FE89C70D04B799D20 at SN6PR05MB6415.namprd05.prod.ou
>> tlook.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> Beside Heine (the major reference) and Stassen (more cuestionable), Creissels wrote a reference paper a few years ago:‘Remarques sur l’émergence de verbes ‘avoir’ au cours de l’histoire des langues’. Faits de langues. 149-158.
>> He has also publishes other Works about the topic (see 
>> http://www.deniscreissels.fr/index.php?pages/articles-publi%C3%83%C2%A
>> 9s)
>>
>> and for an exploration of this topic in uto-aztecan languages:
>> Muchembled, F. 2014. La posesión predicativa en lenguas yutoaztecas. 
>> Tesis doctoral. Hermosillo, UNISON / Paris, INALCO
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Dra. Fany Muchembled
>>
>> Profesora de Francés y Ciencias Sociales
>>
>> Investigadora en Lingüística (GIEE Comunicación y Estudios Culturales)
>>
>> PrepaTec Campus Sonora Norte
>>
>> Departamento de Idiomas
>>
>> Tecnológico de Monterrey
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> De: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> en nombre de 
>> Sergey Loesov <sergeloesov at gmail.com>
>> Enviado: miércoles, 22 de abril de 2020 04:25 a. m.
>> Para: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org 
>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> Asunto: [Lingtyp] predicative possession
>>
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> could you please advise me literature on the encoding of the notion 
>> HAVE/HAVING in the languages that, unlike English, do not have 
>> generally applicable and versatile HAVE-verbs? I am interested in the 
>> grammaticalization paths in this semantic domain.  (I suspect people 
>> call this field “predicative possession.”)
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>  Sergey
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:27:22 +0200
>> From: Raffaele Simone <rsimone at os.uniroma3.it>
>> To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] R: predicative possession
>> Message-ID: <dc0298f5-c593-31dc-b581-91f0402a2da5 at os.uniroma3.it>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>>
>> The late Hansjakob Seiler has dealt with the notion "possession" in 
>> depth in several of his papers and books. See for instance:
>>
>> Hansjakob Seiler, Possession as an operational dimension of language.
>> Günter Narr Verlag, Language Universals Series 2. Tübingen, 1983
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Raffaele Simone
>>
>> Università Roma Tre, Rome
>>
>> Il 22/04/2020 18:35, Paolo Ramat ha scritto:
>>> Dear Sergey, you might be interested in the following reference:
>>>
>>>   Gianguido Manzelli, Paolo Ramat & Elisa Roma, Remarks on marginal possession: are feelings owned? In: Mediterranean languages. Papers from the MEDTYP workshop, Tirrenia, June 2000. Ed. by Paolo Ramat & Thomas Stolz. Universitätsverlag Dr. N. Brockmeyer. Bochum 2002: 223-245.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> P.Rt.
>>>
>>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>>> Da: Lingtyp [mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org] Per 
>>> conto di Egor Kashkin
>>> Inviato: mercoledì 22 aprile 2020 14:14
>>> A: Sergey Loesov <sergeloesov at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> Oggetto: Re: [Lingtyp] predicative possession
>>>
>>> Dear Sergey,
>>>
>>> I think you might be interested in this paper by László Honti on Uralic, including a huge list of references:
>>> http://www.kirj.ee/public/Linguistica_Uralica/2008/issue_3/ling-2008
>>> -3-161-177.pdf
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Egor Kashkin
>>>
>>> ср, 22 апр. 2020 г. в 14:25, Sergey Loesov <sergeloesov at gmail.com>:
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> could you please advise me literature on the encoding of the notion 
>>>> HAVE/HAVING in the languages that, unlike English, do not have 
>>>> generally applicable and versatile HAVE-verbs? I am interested in 
>>>> the grammaticalization paths in this semantic domain.  (I suspect 
>>>> people call this field “predicative possession.”)
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>>   Sergey
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
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>>>
>> --
>> ===============
>> Emeritus Professor, Università Roma Tre Hon C Lund University Membre 
>> de l'Académie Royale de Belgique Chevalier de l'Ordre des Arts et des 
>> Lettres de France Accademico della Crusca =============== Attività e 
>> pubblicazioni // Activity and publications 
>> http://uniroma3.academia.edu/RaffaeleSimone
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:35:50 +0200
>> From: Hilary Chappell <hmchappell at gmail.com>
>> To: Sergey Loesov <sergeloesov at gmail.com>
>> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] predicative possession
>> Message-ID:
>>         
>> <CAAhO4o7AjqEMm2K3gpD_o2+dHiJ8n5mYNSyAKz=92H_aFJxfVA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Denis and I have recently published a paper on this general topic, 
>> based on a sample of 71 languages from East and Southeast Asia:
>>
>> H. Chappell & D. Creissels. 2019.Topicality and the typology of 
>> predicative possession. *Linguistic Typology* (2019) 23.3 468-532.
>> https://doi.org/10.1515/lingty-2019-0016
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Hilary Chappell
>> Chair Professor in the Typology of East Asian languages / Directrice 
>> d'études en typologie linguistique de l'Asie orientale Ecole des 
>> hautes études en sciences sociales (EHESS) Centre de recherches 
>> linguistiques sur l'Asie orientale (CRLAO) Paris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 at 13:25, Sergey Loesov <sergeloesov at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>> could you please advise me literature on the encoding of the notion 
>>> HAVE/HAVING in the languages that, unlike English, do not have 
>>> generally applicable and versatile HAVE-verbs? I am interested in 
>>> the grammaticalization paths in this semantic domain.  (I suspect 
>>> people call this field “predicative possession.”)
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>>  Sergey
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>>
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