[Lingtyp] count nouns & mass nouns

Thu Feb 13 11:29:43 UTC 2020

Dear Steven,
with reference to your criteria (1) and (3): consider a sentence like *many
/*much philosophies have as their starting point different Christian
theologies* and Wittgenstein had different philosophies at different
moments of his life.

Regards,
P.Rt.

prof. dr. Paolo Ramat
 Università di Pavia (retired)
Istituto Universitario Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)
Accademia dei Lincei, Socio corrispondente
'Academia Europaea'
'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary Member
piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100 Pavia
##39 0382 27027
347 044 98 44

Il giorno gio 13 feb 2020 alle ore 04:58 fcosw5 <fcosw5 at scu.edu.tw> ha
scritto:

> Maybe it's just that I'm more of a syntactician/grammarian than a
> semanticist, but for me the main distinction between `count nouns' and
> 'mass nouns' in English is that mass nouns (1) rarely occur in the plural
> (2) can dispense with articles in general (3) take 'much' rather than
> 'many' as a modifier.  By these criteria, I have no trouble regarding
> 'philosophy', 'theology', or 'democracy' as 'mass nouns'.
>
> And, of course, they can be modified: 'Platonic philosophy', 'Aristotelian
> philosophy', 'Christian theology', 'Jewish theology', 'Taoist theology',
> 'Jeffersonian democracy', 'Churchillian democracy'.
>
> Best,
> Steven Schaufele
>
> -----Original message-----
> *From:*paolo Ramat<paolo.ramat at unipv.it>
> *To:*Haspelmath, Martin<haspelmath at shh.mpg.de>
> *Cc:*lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Date: *Tue, 11 Feb 2020 18:16:09
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] The (ab)use of the term "theory" in
> (generative)linguistics
> Hi everyone,
> Martin H. has written that  <<there is confusion also about ]...] the
> relation between "typology" and "theory">>. I fully agree. But Martin says
> further that <<the term "theory" can be used as a count noun , or as a mass
> noun ("linguistic theory", "grammatical theory">>. This sounds rather
> strange: I had always thought that mass nouns are nouns such as 'sugar',
> 'blood', 'sand' etc. Can we consider abstract nouns like
> 'philosophy','theology' or even 'democracy'  as mass nouns? Let alone by
> adding an adjective as in "linguistic/grammatic theory". This is not the
> habitual use of the term and sounds confusing.
> Paolo
>
>
> prof. dr. Paolo Ramat
>  Università di Pavia (retired)
> Istituto Universitario Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)
> Accademia dei Lincei, Socio corrispondente
> 'Academia Europaea'
> 'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary Member
> piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100 Pavia
> ##39 0382 27027
> 347 044 98 44
>
>
> Il giorno mar 11 feb 2020 alle ore 10:47 Haspelmath, Martin <
> haspelmath at shh.mpg.de> ha scritto:
>
>> I would talk about "confusion", not about "abuse", because there are many
>> different kinds of linguistic theories. Moreover, the term "theory" can be
>> used as a count noun (as in the last sentence), or as a mass noun
>> ("linguistic theory", "grammatical theory"). Linguists rarely reflect on
>> kinds of theories, or on kinds of senses of the word "theory", and the
>> papers that Hartmut mentioned have not become well-known. So there is a lot
>> of confusion.
>>
>> In my 2010 paper on "Framework-free grammatical theory" (
>> https://zenodo.org/record/814947), I distinguished four senses of
>> "theory".
>>
>> But there is confusion also about the relation between "typology" and
>> "theory": Quite a few people have contrasted them as if they were different
>> ways of doing linguistics, or different parts of research, e.g.
>>
>> Hengeveld, Kees. 1992. *Non-verbal predication: Theory, typology,
>> diachrony*. Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter.
>> Polinsky, Maria & Robert Kluender. 2007. Linguistic typology and theory
>> construction: Common challenges ahead. *Linguistic Typology* 11(1).
>> 273–283.
>> Van Langendonck, Willy. 2008. *Theory and typology of proper names*.
>> Berlin: De Gruyter Mouton.
>>
>> But on the other hand, it is clear that "atheoretical typology" is
>> impossible, so this usage is confusing. See this recent blogpost, which
>> proposes an alternative: https://dlc.hypotheses.org/1915
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On 11.02.20 10:18, Hartmut Haberland wrote:
>>
>> Jün-Tin Wang 1973. ”On the representation of generative grammars as
>> first-order theories.” In: Radu J. Bogdan and Ilkka Niinilouto eds.
>> *Logic,* *Language and Probability*. Dordrecht: Reidel, 302-316
>>
>> Hans-Heinrich Lieb 1974. "Grammars as theories: The case for axiomatic
>> grammar (Part I)". *Theoretical Linguistics* 1: 39-115.
>>
>> Hans-Heinrich Lieb 1976. "Grammars as theories: The case for axiomatic
>> grammar (Part II)". *Theoretical Linguistics* 3: 1-98.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Fra:* Hartmut Haberland <hartmut at ruc.dk> <hartmut at ruc.dk>
>> *Sendt:* 11. februar 2020 09:33
>> *Til:* TALLMAN Adam <Adam.TALLMAN at cnrs.fr> <Adam.TALLMAN at cnrs.fr>
>> *Emne:* Re: [Lingtyp] The (ab)use of the term "theory" in (generative)
>> linguistics
>>
>>
>>
>> Hans-Heinrich Lieb has written extensively about this in the 70s, also
>> Jün-tin Wang. Hartmut
>>
>>
>> Den 11. feb. 2020 kl. 07.12 skrev TALLMAN Adam <Adam.TALLMAN at cnrs.fr>:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any sources that discuss the abuse of the term "theory"
>> in generative linguistics (or in linguistics generally)? I figure that a
>> paper like this must exist given the deeply insightful comments that I have
>> received by some reviewers.
>>
>>
>>
>> best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam James Ross Tallman (PhD, UT Austin)
>>
>> ELDP-SOAS -- Postdoctorant
>> CNRS -- Dynamique Du Langage (UMR 5596)
>> Bureau 207, 14 av. Berthelot, Lyon (07)
>>
>> Numero celular en bolivia: +59163116867
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Martin Haspelmath (haspelmath at shh.mpg.de)
>> Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
>> Kahlaische Strasse 10	
>> D-07745 Jena
>> &
>> Leipzig University
>> Institut fuer Anglistik
>> IPF 141199
>> D-04081 Leipzig
>>
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