[Lingtyp] Numeral 'one' and 'as soon as'

[Timur Maisak]

Dear all,
although I see that the scope of the original query has been narrowed,
still, just to give a more exotic example than SAE:

Among the specialized converbs of Agul (Lezgic, Nakh-Daghestanian), there
is an idiomatic combination consisting of the perfective participle (in the
nominalized, abs.sg form) plus the additive enclitic =*ra* 'and, also,
even' plus the numeral 'one' (in the nominalized, abs.sg form). The
combibation means 'immediately after, as soon as', e.g. *aq'u-f=ra sa-d*
[do.pfv(ptcp)-nmlz=add one-nmlz] 'as soon as s/he did'.

In principle, this *=ra sa-d* sequence can be already glossed simply as a
single marker, i.e. *aq'u-f-rasad* [do.pfv(ptcp)-nmlz-as.soon.as].

I am not aware of similar structures in closely related Lezgic languages,
by the way.

Best,
Timur Maisak
(Moscow)

чт, 1 апр. 2021 г. в 10:40, Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com>:

> Dear all,
>
> only in this exchange I realized that the Russian *раз* 'time' (in the
> sense of the French 'fois'), is used in a syntactically similar
> construction but functionally different construction as introducing cause
> complement clauses:
>
> *Раз ты пришел так рано, я пойду*.
> As you came so early, I'll be leaving. (Lit. 'Time you.sg come.Pst so
> early, I leave.Prs)
>
> Note that no numeral is used in these constructions, unlike what the
> original query was looking for.
>
> But is the French "Une fois que" not somewhat similar to Russian in this
> respect, in that it is not (only) used in the sense "as soon as" but also
> to introduce subordinate clauses of cause? (And maybe English, too, once
> we're on this). In fact, it would be good to check whether the Russian
> construction is not a 19th century pattern copy from French.
>
> Michael
>
> чт, 1 апр. 2021 г. в 08:33, Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <
> olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Sorry for not having been clearer in my previous email.
>>
>> Yes, English 'once' is used in this way :)
>>
>> I did not mention English and other European languages  because in
>> Mandarin and the other Hmong-Mien languages I mentioned before, the second
>> clause appears with another linker (lit. *on(c)e*........'(*and*) *then*').
>> Accordingly, these languages show some sort of correlative construction.
>> Based on the languages of the sample, this usage of 'on(c)e' in a
>> correlative construction is not common cross-linguistically. It seems that
>> Hmong-Mien languages have copied this strategy with native material from
>> Mandarin. This is some sort of 'pattern replication'. I was expecting to
>> receive more answers concerned with languages spoken in this area in
>> order to see if these languages have also copied this pattern from Mandarin.
>>
>> Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 8:37 PM Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <
>> olguinmartinez at ucsb.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I hope this message finds you well.
>>>
>>> As I was consulting various sources, it seems that the numeral 'one' in
>>> the expression of 'as soon as' is not common cross-linguistically.
>>>
>>> In my sample, this is attested in Standard Mandarin (i.e. *yī), *Xong
>>> (Hmong-Mien), and Iu Mien (Hmong-Mien). Are you aware of any other
>>> languages that express 'as soon as' in a similar way?
>>>
>>> Thank you very much in advance.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jesús Olguín Martínez
>>> Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics
>>> *University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)*
>>> http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jesús Olguín Martínez
>> Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics
>> *University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)*
>> http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez
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