[Lingtyp] Grammatical marking of insults (?)
MM Jocelyne Fernandez
mmjocelynefern at gmail.com
Fri Dec 17 04:53:05 UTC 2021
@Maia, Paolo, Riccardo
Of course, when you start looking for insult of colloquial language,
counter-examples are numerous.
As for French, I would not assert that "espèce de" can never be used
with a positive substantive – provided it is immediately followed by
another expression that contradicts it, e.g.
- Espèce de (petit) génie à la con!
≈ (small) crummy genius!
- Espèce de génie de mes fesses!
≈ genius of my buttocks!
(Sorry for the over-familiarity, but such expressions can be found in
spontaneous corpora, either ironical or referring to a previous co-text.)
Maybe it is a further argument for considering that "espèce de" is a
lexical construction.
Best wishes from Quartier Latin
MMJocelyne Fernandez
Le 15/12/2021 à 12:17, Volker Gast a écrit :
>
> If you need some type of theoretical framework for this study, you
> could use Jonathan Culpeper's work on impoliteness, see for instance
> this paper on 'impoliteness strategies':
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/300633947_Impoliteness_Strategies
>
> Culpeper distinguishes eleven types of insults in Section 8 on
> 'impoliteness triggers' (referring to his own earlier work from 2011).
> He extended Brown/Levinston-style politeness theory to impoliteness --
> communicative actions intended to damage someone's (positive) face.
>
> I doubt that languages have grammaticalized ways of expressing, for
> instance, positive impoliteness, in the same way as they encode
> positive politeness (e.g. in the V/T-forms of European languages).
> Perhaps you could consider the use of T-forms in a V-context as
> impolite (and potentially offensive). I wouldn't regard the types of
> structures found in 'personalized negative vocatives' (Culpeper's
> term) "grammaticalized". I think they rather belong in the lexicon,
> but that's obviously a matter of definition.
>
> Volker
>
>
> On 15.12.21 11:39, Riccardo Giomi wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Thank you very much for a nice set of data and references. This will
>> be extremely useful.
>>
>> I will reply to some of you privately, asking for further
>> comments/data/references. In the mean time, any further feedback is
>> of course more than welcome!
>>
>> @Maia & Paolo: I agree with Paolo that /pezzo di / espèce de/ are not
>> grammaticalized, although not for the reason he mentions. After all
>> the working hypothesis is precisely that languages can have
>> grammaticalized means of marking a speech act as an insult, so,
>> according to this hypothesis, the fact that /pezzo di X/ never occurs
>> with positively connotated epithets does not entail that the
>> construction is not grammaticalized.
>> A different type of argument for regarding these as lexical
>> constructions is the fact that premodifying adjectives must agree
>> with /pezzo /and not with the epithet (and I guess the same goes for
>> French /espèce/), cf. /brutt_o_ pezzo di cretina/, as opposed to
>> */brutt_a_ pezzo di cretina/. This suggests that /pezzo /is the head
>> of the construction; if it had been a grammaticalized element, I
>> suppose agreement would have been with the epithet. At any rate,
>> these nouns are not really reserved for marking a speech act as an
>> insult -- they can also occur in other types of speech act, e.g.
>> declarative /Quel pezzo di X mi ha rubato la bici /(roughly, 'That
>> dirty X stole my bike').
>>
>> Best wishes to all,
>> Riccardo
>>
>> Paolo Ramat <paoram at unipv.it> escreveu no dia quarta, 15/12/2021 à(s)
>> 11:03:
>>
>> In Italian too /pezzo di X /'espèce de X' , as in /pezzo di
>> idiota /and the very insulting, derogating/ (/but very much
>> used)/pezzo di merda, /appears just in derogating expressions:
>> you will never hear /*pezzo di genio, /nor/*pezzo di benefattore
>> ! /This is, I think, an argument for not considering the
>> construct /'pezzo di X ' /as belonging to the grammar (Maia).
>>
>> Paolo
>>
>> Prof. Dr. Paolo Ramat
>> Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Socio corrispondente
>> 'Academia Europaea'
>> 'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary Member
>> Università di Pavia (retired)
>> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)
>>
>> piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100 Pavia
>> ##39 0382 27027
>> 347 044 98 44
>>
>>
>> Il giorno mer 15 dic 2021 alle ore 07:48 Nigel Vincent
>> <nigel.vincent at manchester.ac.uk> ha scritto:
>>
>> Maia is of course right that the English 'you X' is a way of
>> insulting people but that depends on X being an insult. The
>> same construction can be used to praise: 'you genius', 'you
>> darling', etc.
>> Nigel
>>
>>
>> Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE
>> Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics
>> The University of Manchester
>>
>> Linguistics & English Language
>> School of Arts, Languages and Cultures
>> The University of Manchester
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> on behalf of Maia Ponsonnet <maia.ponsonnet at uwa.edu.au>
>> *Sent:* 15 December 2021 1:54 AM
>> *To:* Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski at oulu.fi>;
>> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Grammatical marking of insults (?)
>> Hello,
>>
>> Doesn't the English "you idiot" (you [insult]) qualify as an
>> example?
>> Copula-free adposition is not standard in English
>> predication, and it seems largely limited to second person
>> sing and derogatory adjectives?
>> French has "espèce d'idiot" - not sure whether it qualifies
>> as grammatical or lexical.
>> Cheers, Maïa
>>
>> Dr Maïa Ponsonnet
>> Senior Lecturer, Discipline of Linguistics
>>
>> Graduate Research Coordinator, School of Social Sciences
>>
>> Building M257, Room 2.36
>>
>> The University of Western Australia
>> 35 Stirling Hwy, Perth, WA (6009), Australia
>> P. +61 (0) 8 6488 2870 - M. +61 (0) 468 571 030
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> on behalf of Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski at oulu.fi>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 15 December 2021 6:09 AM
>> *To:* lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Grammatical marking of insults (?)
>> Dear Riccardo and all,
>>
>> D’Avis and Meibauer's paper "Du Idiot! Din idiot!
>> Pseudo-vocative constructions and insults in German (and
>> Swedish)"
>> (https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110304176.189/html
>> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.degruyter.com%2Fdocument%2Fdoi%2F10.1515%2F9783110304176.189%2Fhtml&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Qm0dhs6L0wUoC0ozwJeshZnGlztNFYs2tB0%2FwjH91yo%3D&reserved=0>)
>> might be of interest; see also the thirty studies referring
>> to this paper according to Google Scholar:
>> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=9645899484374998601
>> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com%2Fscholar%3Fcites%3D9645899484374998601&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=SiEIXLU6h58y3oPt6JDnSMiqxAD9CDEmDdvrhfbB%2F64%3D&reserved=0>
>> (and so forth).
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jussi
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Frá:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> fyrir hönd Sebastian Nordhoff <sebastian.nordhoff at glottotopia.de>
>> *Sent:* þriðjudagur, 14. desember 2021 22:50
>> *Til:* lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> *Efni:* Re: [Lingtyp] Grammatical marking of insults (?)
>> Dear Riccardo,
>> Sinhala has several levels of politeness in imperatives
>> (marked by
>> affixes), one of which would be rendered as "Do X, you $#!%
>> !!!". I once
>> nearly got beaten up when underestimating the impact that the
>> use of
>> this form can have. I can look up the reference if you want to.
>> Best wishes
>> Sebastian
>>
>> On 12/14/21 19:49, Riccardo Giomi wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > A student of mine would like to investigate the linguistic
>> coding of
>> > insults across languages. She is particularly interested in
>> finding out
>> > whether languages can have dedicated (uses of) grammatical
>> > forms/constructions for this specific purpose. The best
>> example I could
>> > come up with so far is the use of the Portuguese third
>> person reflexive
>> > possessive adjective (determiner in Brazilian Portuguese)
>> /seu/sua/ with
>> > epithets which are meant as insults. An example would be
>> >
>> > /Cala=te, seu burro!/
>> > shut.up.IMP.2.SG <http://shut.up.IMP.2.SG>
>> <http://shut.up.IMP.2.SG
>> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fshut.up.imp.2.sg%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Wsd38z3IS7%2FaqTyJkGPUkncKamWvN1IwGXTun%2F7NpTI%3D&reserved=0>>=2.SG.OBJ
>> 3.SG.REFL.POSS
>> > donkey.M.SG <http://donkey.M.SG> <http://donkey.M.SG
>> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdonkey.m.sg%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DAnllkzoCwHEhKOA07WYqh25abAsY2i7%2Fp4%2Bmj134VM%3D&reserved=0>>
>> > 'Shut up, you idiot!'
>> >
>> > (Where, funnily enough, the third person of the
>> adjective/determiner is
>> > presumably the polite form!) This is an interesting case, I
>> think,
>> > because as far as I can see you never use /seu/sua /in 'plain'
>> > vocatives, nor with terms of endearment, nor, for that
>> matter, with NPs
>> > which are not used as invocations.
>> >
>> > I am wondering whether anyone is aware of a language which
>> has some
>> > grammaticalized form or construction that can be used in
>> this specific
>> > way. Note that I am not interested in, say, abusive
>> pronouns or
>> > honorifics or general expressions of the speaker's
>> disappointment
>> > ('frustrative' markers) but only in grammaticalized means
>> of marking the
>> > speech act as an insult.
>> >
>> > Many thanks in advance and best wishes to all,
>> > Riccardo
>> >
>> > --
>> > Riccardo Giomi, Ph.D.
>> > University of Liège
>> > Département de langues modernes : linguistique, littérature
>> et traduction
>> > Research group /Linguistique contrastive et typologie des
>> langues/
>> > F.R.S.-FNRS Postdoctoral fellow (CR - FC 43095)
>> > //
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Lingtyp mailing list
>> > Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistserv.linguistlist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flingtyp&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=tXVv1UmQRpc6FL%2FBIEeQEkvgOZvHNaC%2BkzSfZI9wJ%2BY%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>> <https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistserv.linguistlist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flingtyp&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=tXVv1UmQRpc6FL%2FBIEeQEkvgOZvHNaC%2BkzSfZI9wJ%2BY%3D&reserved=0>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lingtyp mailing list
>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
--
Prof. M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST CNRS & Université Sorbonne Nouvelle
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20211217/0b7e8c41/attachment.htm>
More information about the Lingtyp
mailing list