[Lingtyp] Literature on 'already' > causal

Thu Jul 29 02:24:35 UTC 2021

Dear Prof. Dahl,
Thanks for the correction! I see now where I misunderstood something you had written.

All the best,
Randy
-----
Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA （羅仁地）
Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School of Humanities 
Nanyang Technological University
HSS-03-45, 48 Nanyang Avenue | Singapore 639818
http://randylapolla.info/ <http://randylapolla.info/>
(personal.ntu.edu.sg/randylapolla <http://personal.ntu.edu.sg/randylapolla>)
Most recent books:
The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (2017)
https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324 <https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324>
Sino-Tibetan Linguistics (2018)
https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397 <https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397>

> On 27 Jul 2021, at 7:25 PM, Östen Dahl <oesten at ling.su.se> wrote:
> 
> ”the way it is defined it is often said to be limited to stative predicates”… That’s an interesting claim, given that the works by Olsson, Wälchli, and myself that Bastian refers to certainly do not restrict it to statives.
> Best,
> Östen
>  
> Från: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> För Randy LaPolla
> Skickat: den 27 juli 2021 12:58
> Till: Bastian Persohn <persohn.linguistics at gmail.com>
> Kopia: LINGTYP <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Ämne: Re: [Lingtyp] Literature on 'already' > causal
>  
> Yes, Bastian, but I don’t use that term, as the way it is defined it is often said to be limited to stative predicates. In the languages I am familiar with they can occur with any sort of predicate, e.g. in Tagalog and Chinese.
>  
> All the best,
> Randy
> 
> 
> On Jul 27, 2021, at 3:44 PM, Bastian Persohn <persohn.linguistics at gmail.com <mailto:persohn.linguistics at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Dear Randy,
>  
> Are you referring to those markers often called iamatives, following Olsson’s MA thesis and subsequent work by Dahl and Wälchli?
>  
> I’d include those under the label of 'already‘, but yes, that’s something I could have stated more clearly.
>  
> Bestm
> Bastian
> 
> 
> Am 27.07.2021 um 07:07 schrieb Randy LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com <mailto:randy.lapolla at gmail.com>>:
>  
> Dear Bastian,
> Just a suggestion: Rather than limiting your search to lexical items that mean ‘already’, you might expand it to include change of state aspect markers, which are commonly translated as ‘already’, and possibly even perfective aspect marking in some languages. 
>  
> All the best,
> Randy
> -----
> Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA （羅仁地）
> Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School of Humanities 
> Nanyang Technological University
> HSS-03-45, 48 Nanyang Avenue | Singapore 639818
> http://randylapolla.info/ <http://randylapolla.info/>
> (personal.ntu.edu.sg/randylapolla <http://personal.ntu.edu.sg/randylapolla>)
> Most recent books:
> The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (2017)
> https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324 <https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324>
> Sino-Tibetan Linguistics (2018)
> https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397 <https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397>
> 
> 
> On 26 Jul 2021, at 11:11 PM, Bastian Persohn <persohn.linguistics at gmail.com <mailto:persohn.linguistics at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Dear lingtyp list members,
> 
> Do you know of any literature that discusses the development of causal clause markers from (constructions involving) expressions for ‚already‘, especially works that discuss the underlying semanto-pragmatic motivation?
> 
> The type of construction I have in mind is found, for instance, in Spanish and Italian (1, 2) and has also been described for the Arabic variety of the Medina of Tunis (3). German (Wo du schon da bist, bleib doch zum Abendessen ‚As you’re here (already), why don’t you stay for supper?) and Bosnian-Serbian-Croatian (Kad si već ovdje, zašto ne ostaneš na večeri ‚dto‘) could be counted as additional examples.
>  
> (1) Ya que tu desgracia no tiene remedio, llévala con paciencia.
> Already SUBORD your misfortune NEG has remedy wear_it with patience
> ‘Given that there’s no remedy against your misfortune, wear it with patience
> (RAE 2009)
> 
>  
> (2) Giacché / già che lo sai, perché me lo chiedi?
> CAUSAL / already SUBORD it you_know why me it you_ask
> ‘Since you know it, why do you ask me?’ (M-H & Strudsholm 2008: 494)
>  
> (3) Xān-n-əmši᷄-u ʕala sāq-î-na báʕda ma-hî-š baʕîda
> HORT-1-go.IPFV-PL on leg-PL-1PL already NEG-3SG.F-neg far:F
> ‘Wir wollen zu Fuß hingehen da es doch/ja nicht weit ist’ [Let’s go there by foot, as it’s really not far] (Singer 1984)
> 
> 
> I look forward to your replies!
> 
> 
> Best,
> Bastian
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