[Lingtyp] Approximative numerals with emotive content

Wed Feb 23 03:18:13 UTC 2022

Hi Amanda,

Chinese (Mandarin) has some interesting "approximative numerals with
emotive content."

*1. 万 wàn '10,000 (ten-thousand)'.* The emotive usage seems to indicate
'many' or 'abundance'.

万事如意
ten-thousand things according.to meaning
'May all go well with you.'

万一...
ten-thousand one
'Just in case...' (as in "out of ten-thousand chances, there still is that
outside chance that such and such will happen.")

*2. 八 bā 'eight'.* While 'eight' is an auspicious number (folk etymology:
because it rhymes with *fā* as in 发财 ‘become wealthy'), it also shows up as
a modifier indicating 'entirety' or 'completely'.

胡说八道
careless speak eight way
'speak complete nonsense'

乱七八糟
'a complete mess'

四面八方
four faces eight places
'in all directions, everywhere'

As you can see, 'four' and 'seven' are there also, but lead up to 'eight'.
四 'four' is an unlucky number as (folk etymologically) it rhymes with 死 'to
die'.

--
Best regards,

*Jesse P. Gates, PhD*Nankai University, School of Literature 南开大学文学院
https://nankai.academia.edu/JesseGates

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 8:31 AM Siva Kalyan <sivakalyan.princeton at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I would add that 1008 is also a sacred number in Dharmic religions, though
> I don’t know if it is used to mean “umpteen”.
>
> Also, this reminds me that in Japanese, the word for “grocery store” is
> 八百屋 *yaoya*, literally ‘800 shop’. However, *yao-* cannot (in modern
> Japanese) be used on its own to mean ‘800’ (the characters 八百 are usually
> given the Sino-Japanese reading *happyaku*), though in a literary
> register it is still found in the word 八百万 *yaoyorozu* ‘eight hundred
> myriads (i.e. 8 million)’, which is indeed used as a hyperbolically large
> number.
>
> Siva
>
> On 23 Feb 2022, at 10:16 am, Rikker Dockum <rikker.dockum at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> A few from Thai:
>
> ล้านเจ็ด สิบเอดแสน
> /lá:n-cèt sìp-èt sɛ̌:n/
> million-seven eleven hundred.thousand
> "1.7 million, 11-hundred thousand"
> A hyperbolically large number which comically violates typical large
> number syntax. It is also a four-syllable elaborate expression
> <https://escholarship.org/content/qt1h44v99w/qt1h44v99w_noSplash_885797339065fc34897d1147e04c23dc.pdf?t=pfpo99>
> with internal-rhyme in an A B B C pattern of of /cet/ and /et/. (Note that
> in Thai these can have an optional unstressed fifth syllable in the center,
> as is the case here: /sìp/ is not stressed in /sìp-èt/.)
>
> ร้อยแปด
> /rɔ́:j pɛ̀:t/
> hundred eight
> lit. "a hundred and eight", corresponding roughly to "umpteen". Usage
> varies between hyperbole and more neutral/literal usage, but it's probably
> most frequently used in the hyperbolic sense. It's a reference to the sacred
> number 108
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number)#Religion_and_the_arts> in
> Dharmic religions. (Thailand even has a convenience store chain 108 Shop
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_Shop>, so named presumably because
> they sell everything.)
>
> ร้อยแปดพันก้าว
> /rɔ́:j pɛ̀:t pʰan kâ:w/
> hundred eight thousand nine
> "a hundred and eight, a thousand and nine" meaning "umpteen", an
> elaborated version of the previous one!
>
> Best,
> Rikker
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 6:20 PM Jess Tauber <tetrahedralpt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yahgan (a nearly extinct genetic isolate from Tierra del Fuego) has (or
>> had) the form ma:nara (colon : marks tenseness of vowel preceding) which
>> appears to denote 'more than (someone or something else), as when someone
>> is in a rivalry situation, even if they don't know it. And it has an
>> emotive connotation, since of the several example sentences given in the
>> dictionary (which is all we have) has the speaker complaining about it.
>> hu:lu: sa ma:nara la:ride: amaim, hai ba:f ku:kan  big/large you (sg.)
>> much-more gathered-and-carried-in-a-skin-past tense fruit/fungus, I not
>> same  = What a lot of fruit/tree fungus you got and brought home, so much
>> more than I did.' Etymologically it seems to be composed of mana- 'beyond'
>> (the usual limits) plus a reduced form of wuru: 'more' (such reduced forms
>> of wuru: appear in several internal reconstructions). sa we: ma:nara
>> shabagu:da:gu:a  You (sg.) may/will much-more
>> be-happy/enjoy-for-onself-future  'You may or will enjoy yourself without
>> me'. kv-ma:nara shabaguhrgaiagata, kvnjin ba:f matu:me:akonata me:am   he
>> (sg)- much-more happy/enjoy-progressive-for-self, he (sg.) not fear (for)
>> self= 'He rejoices (though no one else does) and does not fear for himself
>> or his own people'.
>>
>> Jess Tauber
>>
>>
>>  '
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 1:57 PM Riccardo Giomi <rgiomi at campus.ul.pt>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Amanda and all,
>>>
>>> How about English bajillion/bazillion and its (near-)equivalents in
>>> other languages, such as Italian 'fantastilione', 'fantastiliardo' (a
>>> mashup of 'fantastico' and 'milione/miliardo', originally coined by some
>>> translator of Donald Duck comics)?
>>>
>>> Apart from that, I tend to agree with Federica Mazzitelli and would add
>>> that, in Italian, basically any number above let's say three or four can be
>>> used as an emotionally loaded hyperbole, as long as the context is such
>>> that the number will be perceived as exceeding a plausible quantification
>>> of the referent at stake.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Riccardo
>>>
>>>
>>> Il mar 22 feb 2022, 15:28 Amanda Kann <amanda.kann at su.se> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Dear typologists,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (Apologies to those who have already seen this query through
>>>> LinguistList!)
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking for corresponding expressions (in any language) to the
>>>> approximative numeral phrases in the examples below – conventionalized
>>>> numeral expressions which typically express larger, approximate numeric
>>>> quantities and encode some kind of emotive function.
>>>> I'm interested in the composition and value of these numerals, as well
>>>> as their emphatic and emotive functions – if there are other expressions in
>>>> the numeral domain in your language(s) that carry a similar illocutionary
>>>> force, I would love to hear about them as well!
>>>>
>>>> Swedish [swe]: (from Bloggmix 2013, accessed through
>>>> http://spraakbanken.gu.se/korp)
>>>> Det finns nämligen femtioelva sorters myror.
>>>> 'There are actually many types of ants' (lit. 'There are actually
>>>> fifty-eleven types of ants')
>>>>
>>>> French [fra]: (Lavric 2010, https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004253247_008)
>>>> Il n’y a pas trente-six façons de voir la chose.
>>>> 'There aren't very many ways of seeing the thing' (lit. 'There aren't
>>>> thirty-six ways of seeing the thing')
>>>>
>>>> Danish [dan]: (from OpenSubtitles2018, accessed through
>>>> http://opus.nlpl.eu)
>>>> Han fortalte mig 117 gange, at han ikke gjorde hende noget.
>>>> 'He told me a thousand times that he didn't do anything to her' (lit.
>>>> 'He told me 117 times that he didn't do anything to her')
>>>>
>>>> English [eng]: (from OpenSubtitles2018, accessed through
>>>> http://opus.nlpl.eu)
>>>> For the umpteenth time, we are not getting a dog.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much in advance for any tips, examples or comments!
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Amanda Kann
>>>>
>>>> *____________________________________*
>>>>
>>>> *Amanda Kann*
>>>>
>>>> Institutionen för lingvistik | *Department of **Linguistics*
>>>>
>>>> *Stockholms universitet | Stockholm University*
>>>> 106 91 Stockholm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *amanda.kann at su.se <amanda.kann at su.se>*
>>>> www.ling.su.se
>>>>
>>>> Personuppgiftsbehandling vid Stockholms universitet
>>>> <https://www.su.se/om-webbplats-cookies/personuppgifter>
>>>> *____________________________________*
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