[Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses

Wed Jan 12 12:30:02 UTC 2022

Since the discussion started with an Iranian variety, areal influence
should probably be considered, and might more relevant than general
typological parallels.

I am thinking of the main Turkic 'as soon as' construction:

*gel-ir           gel-mez...*
come-evt    come-neg.evt
"As soon as he arrived" (evt = eventual, a general imperfective tense, aka
'aorist')

It has been copied in a number of non-Turkic languages of the Caucasus.

GA

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:22 PM David Gil <gil at shh.mpg.de> wrote:

> Dear Mohammad, everyone,
>
> Adding Hebrew to the list: it has expletive negation in until clauses, but
> as far as I can tell not in before clauses.
>
> David
>
>
>
> On 12/01/2022 13:31, Bernhard Wälchli wrote:
>
> Dear Mohammad,
>
>
> Dear all
>
>
>
> Below there is some selected literature on expletive negation. In temporal
> clauses, negation is common especially in
>
> =’before’: extremely widespread cross-linguistically, see e.g. Hetterle’s
> (2015) typological monograph.
>
> =’until’: seems to be very restricted areally, mainly Eastern Europe &
> Caucasus and South Asia (Indo-Aryan and Indo-sphere Sino-Tibetan), but also
> Paumarí (maybe due to influence from Portuguese *enquanto...não* ?). In
> Eastern Europe and in Indo-Aryan, this seems to be a parallel rather recent
> development (i.e. not going back to Indo-European). An interesting question
> is how the possible areal relationship between modern Indo-Aryan and
> Indo-sphere Sino-Tibetan looks like: “as long as not” for ‘until’ is very
> common in some Sino-Tibetan languages. I think it is an interesting
> question as to what extent this may be due to contact with modern
> Indo-Aryan languages.
>
> =”as soon as”: and there seems to be least typological research about
> this, but it is probably not at all uncommon with different sorts of
> constructions with negation strategies in “as soon as”, as e.g. in Turkish
> the -r -mez converb construction *ben oturur oturmaz telefon **çald**ı*
> ‘as soon as I sat down, the telephone rang’ “I sitting.down
> not.sitting.down telefon rang” (Lewis 2000: 182).
>
>
>
> I think part of the explanation of where expletive negation can be found
> in temporal clauses is the following:
>
> =Temporal clauses are temporal in two senses: a) related to time and b)
> not-permanent. A temporal clause cannot express a permanent state, but
> negation is not compatible with temporal clauses – to the extent it is not
> semantically phasal (“not yet” or “no longer”; cf. Heinämäki’s 1974: 183
> example: * When the lights were not on, we took a nap.* cannot mean that
> the lights were never on, negation must be interpreted phasally here, that
> the lights probably were on most for of the time or at least quite often.).
> Which opens up for negation markers being used for other senses than
> polarity in temporal clauses.
>
> =Negation expresses non-identity rather than identity. In temporal
> clauses, simultaneous is identity of events and posterior and anterior is
> non-identity of events. It would be utterly strange if negation was used in
> simultaneous temporal clauses (‘when, while’), I do not know of a single
> example of this and wonder whether there are any. It is, however, very
> clearly understandable that negation can be deployed for posterior meanings
> (‘before’ and ‘until’) and for some anterior ones (especially ‘as soon as’)
> since posterior and anterior is non-identity of times.
>
>
>
> Some selected literature on expletive negation:
>
> Abels, Klaus. 2005. “Expletive negation” in Russian: a conspiracy theory. *
> Journal of Slavic Linguistics* 13.1, 5–74.
>
> Espinal, M. Teresa. 2000. Expletive negation, negative concord and feature
> checking. *Catalan Working Papers in Linguistics* 8: 47-69.
>
> Greco, M. 2020. On the syntax of surprise negation sentences: A case study
> on expletive negation. *Natural Language & Linguistic Theory* *38*(3),
> 775–825.
>
> Iordanskaja, L. & I. Mel’čuk. 2009. Semantics of the Russian conjunction
> *poka* ‘while, before, until’. In T. Berger, M. Giger, S. Kurt & I.
> Mendoza, Hg., * Von grammatischen Kategorien und sprachlichen Weltbildern
> – Die Slavia von der Sprachgeschichte bis zur Politsprache*. Wiener
> Slawistischer Almanach. Sonderband 73, 253–262. München.
>
> Jin, Y. and Koenig, J.P., 2020. A cross-linguistic study of expletive
> negation.  Linguistic Typology 2021; 25(1): 39–78.
>
> Wälchli, B. 2018/2019. ‘As long as’,’until’ and ‘before’ clauses. *Baltic
> Linguistics* * 9*, 141–236.
> http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1351829/FULLTEXT01.pdf
>
>
>
> Further references
>
> Heinämäki, Orvokki Tellervo. 1974. *Semantics of English temporal clauses*.
> Ph.D. thesis. The University of Texas at Austin.
>
> Hetterle, Katja. 2015. *Adverbial Clauses in Cross-Linguistic Perspective*.
> Berlin: De Grutyer Mouton.
>
> Lewis, Geoffrey. 2000. *Turkish Grammar*. 2nd edition. Oxford: Oxford
> University Press.
>
>
>
> Best
>
> Bernhard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of ROBERT Stephane
> <stephane.robert at cnrs.fr> <stephane.robert at cnrs.fr>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:11 PM
> *To:* Nigel Vincent; Françoise Rose; mohammad rasekh; LINGTYP LINGTYP
> *Cc:* Fariba Sabouri
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses
>
>
> Dear Mohammad,
>
>
> Nigel is absolutely right about the restriction of the negation to its
> first part (*ne*) in Françoise French example. However French also has
> another construction using the complete (discontinuous) negation (
> *ne...pas*) and using a temporal adverb, which seems to me be to be even
> closer to your Persian example 1:
>
>
> *Il n’a/eut pas plus tôt répondu à son supérieur qu’il a quitté la salle*
> he *NEG1* has/had *NEG2* more early responded to his superior *COMP* he
> left the room
> "No sooner had he responded to his superior than he left the room"
> *~* "as soon as he (had) responded to his superior, he left the room "
>
> Two points seem important to me in this negative construction which
> emphasizes the immediacy of the second event in relation to the first: the
> presence of the temporal adverbial in the comparative form *plus tôt*
> 'sooner' and the complementizer (*que*). The two (*no sooner E1 that E1*)
> form a correlative structure.
>
> Best
>
> Stéphane
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> de la part de Nigel Vincent
> <nigel.vincent at manchester.ac.uk> <nigel.vincent at manchester.ac.uk>
> *Envoyé :* mercredi 12 janvier 2022 10:29
> *À :* Françoise Rose; mohammad rasekh; LINGTYP LINGTYP
> *Cc :* Fariba Sabouri
> *Objet :* Re: [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses
>
> In relation to the French example it should perhaps be added that in a
> clause with 'avant' only the first part of the negation marker 'ne…pas'
> occurs. Contrast 'elle n'arrive pas' and 'avant qu'elle n'arrive', where
> the first is ungrammatical without 'pas' and the second is ungrammatical
> with 'pas' (or so I was taught!).
> Perhaps also relevant to Mohammad's question is the use of the Latin
> negative purposive complementizer *ne* 'in order that … not' as the
> marker of the complement of a verb of fearing (cf the volume referred to in
> an earlier post in this thread).
> Nigel
>
> Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE
> Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics
> The University of Manchester
>
> Linguistics & English Language
> School of Arts, Languages and Cultures
> The University of Manchester
>
>
>
>
> https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Françoise Rose
> <francoise.rose at univ-lyon2.fr> <francoise.rose at univ-lyon2.fr>
> *Sent:* 12 January 2022 9:53 AM
> *To:* mohammad rasekh <mrasekhmahand at yahoo.com> <mrasekhmahand at yahoo.com>;
> LINGTYP LINGTYP <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Cc:* Fariba Sabouri <faribasabouri at gmail.com> <faribasabouri at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses
>
>
> Dear Mohammad,
>
> this is a very common phenomenon in (rather formal) French:
>
>
>
> avant qu’elle n’arrive, ….
>
> before she arrives (lit. before she does not arrive)
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, I don’t have any reading recommendation on the topic!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Françoise ROSE (fʁɑ̃swɑz ʁoz)
>
> Directrice de Recherches 2ème classe, CNRS
>
> Laboratoire Dynamique Du Langage (CNRS/Université Lyon2)
>
> 16 avenue Berthelot
>
> 69007 Lyon
>
> FRANCE
>
> www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> *De la part de* mohammad
> rasekh
> *Envoyé :* mardi 11 janvier 2022 16:18
> *À :* LINGTYP LINGTYP <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Cc :* Fariba Sabouri <faribasabouri at gmail.com> <faribasabouri at gmail.com>
> *Objet :* [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> I hope you have started a happy new year.
>
> In the corpus of one of my students in Hamedani Persian (a variety spoken
> in Hamedan, west of Iran), we have found some adverbial clauses in which
> the verb is marked by negative prefix, but it does not mean negative. These
> adverbial clauses mark Time (meaning 'as soon as') and Reason, or both at
> the same time. Some examples:
>
>
>
> 1.        *i               ke            kur          na**-šod**, man
>         diye          ruz-e xoš                 na-didam*
>
>         he            that         blind       NEG-become, I    anymore
> day-EZ happy     NEG-see-1SG
>
>         As soon as he got blind, I had no good times.
>
> 2.      *das       ke         ne-mi-ke**š**-i**
>                         ru har**č**i,                       x**ā**k-e*
>
>        hand     that      NEG-IND-touch-2SG               over
> everything,       dirty-BE.3SG
>
>     As you touch everything, it is dirty.
>
> I wonder if there is any other language in which the adverbial clause is
> negative in form but not in meaning. I searched to find some evidence or
> some sources which mention this, but I was not successful. I appreciate
> your comments.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mohammad
>
>
>
> Mohammad Rasekh-Mahand
>
> Linguistics Department,
>
> Bu-Ali Sina University,
>
> Hamedan, Iran.
>
> Postal Code: 6517838695
>
> https://basu.academia.edu/MohammadRasekhmahand
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> David Gil
>
> Senior Scientist (Associate)
> Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
> Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
>
> Email: gil at shh.mpg.de
> Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
> Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
>
>
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