[Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples

David Nash david.nash at anu.edu.au
Tue Mar 22 02:56:42 UTC 2022


A short answer Ilana would be: 'Canonical Typology' 
https://www.smg.surrey.ac.uk/approaches/canonical-typology/
With pedagogical implications.

Yes, a great discussion topic; and I think Daniel Ross's post in 
particular has much food for thought!
David


On 22/3/2022 13:11, Ilana Mushin wrote:
>
> Great discussion topic! I’m intrigued by the focus on finding the best 
> examples of transitive constructions, usually with two nominal 
> arguments. These are hard to find ‘in the wild’, as clauses in 
> everyday talk tends to involve intransitive (or lesser transitive) 
> constructions with at least one zero or pronominal argument (DuBois’ 
> preferred argument structure). To what purpose should we be trying to 
> find the extreme ends of what is possible grammatically, if this is 
> not something that speakers themselves appear to be concerned with in 
> their daily uses of language (which is where grammaticalization takes 
> place)?
>
> Ilana
>
> -- 
>
> Ilana Mushin
>
> Professor of Linguistics
>
> Deputy Head of School
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> President, Australian Linguistic Society
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> *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf 
> of Felicity Meakins <f.meakins at uq.edu.au>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 11:36 am
> *To: *Spreng, Bettina <bettina.spreng at usask.ca>, JOO, Ian [Student] 
> <ian.joo at connect.polyu.hk>, lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org 
> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
>
> Yes although I think the Hopper and Thomason argument would be about 
> the relative animacy of the A and O roles
>
> *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf 
> of "Spreng, Bettina" <bettina.spreng at usask.ca>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 10:51 am
> *To: *"JOO, Ian [Student]" <ian.joo at connect.polyu.hk>, 
> "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org" <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
>
> I think it’s definitely worth considering. Prototypically transitive 
> verbs can be used quite differently.
>
> Hit a ball, a tree, anything that maybe isn’t a woman?
>
> Chop wood, cut bread, kiss a woman?
>
> Some violent words can be used in the hunting context. In Inuit 
> languages, we often use
>
> Killing or shooting a polar bear. There is nothing problematic about that.
>
> So often, I change genders in examples because they are so 
> stereotyical. So, this goes beyond the indigenous stereotypes but 
> stereotypes in general.
>
> John kissed Mary.
>
> Mary likes John.
>
> John gives Mary a book.
>
> With females being receivers, or receptacles, subjects of psych verbs, 
> etc.
>
> It goes beyond the indigenous context but that is a particularly 
> sensitive one.
>
> Once you pay attention, it’s quite blatant.
>
> *Dr. Bettina Spreng*
>
> Assistant Professor, Department of Linguistics
>
> College of Arts & Sciences | University of Saskatchewan
>
> P: (306) 966-1440
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> Arts Building, Room 911
>
> 9 Campus Drive, Saskatoon, SK S7N 5A5
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> *From:*Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> *On Behalf 
> Of *JOO, Ian [Student]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2022 6:05 PM
> *To:* lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
>
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>
> Is “hug” and “carry” as transtive as “hit”, though?
> According to Hopper and Thompson (1980), one of the factors of 
> transitivity is the affectedness of the patient.
> Hugging or carrying someone does not affect them as much as hitting does.
> Also “hug” is not so basic a word as “hit” is, which is in the Swadesh 
> List or the Leipzig-Jakarta List.
> Of course, hitting someone is a bad thing to do. But I don’t think 
> linguists should avoid certain sentences because they depict something 
> morally bad.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian
>
> On 22. Mar 2022, 00:54 +0100, Felicity Meakins <f.meakins at uq.edu.au>, 
> wrote:
>
>     Hi all,
>
>     We also comment on this in our field methods textbook (p. 129) and
>     use a reflection from Torres Strait Islander linguist Al Harvey
>     about this issue to illustrate how it can affect communities:
>
>     Meakins, F., Green, J., & Turpin, M. (2018). /Understanding
>     linguistic fieldwork/. London: Routledge.
>
>     “One of the problems with publishing some of the sentences made up
>     by linguists is that they become instantiations of culture and may
>     perpetuate negative stereotypes about often already marginalised
>     people. For example, grammars are full of sen- tences exemplifying
>     transitivity using verbs that denote violence. ‘Hit’ is a classic
>     transitive verb, but so is ‘hug’ or ‘carry’. When you construct
>     sentences for elicita- tion, avoid topics that refer to violence,
>     sex, alcohol, drugs (including smoking), child abuse or neglect,
>     as these may upset people down the track. Also bear in mind that
>     descendants of the speakers may read the grammar in years to come,
>     or may be an audience member in a presentation using data you
>     collected. Imagine that you are trying to re-construct your
>     language and the only verb in the corpus is ‘hit’!
>
>     *Perpetuating negative stereotypes of communities – Al Harvey*
>
>     My name is Al Harvey, I am of Saibai Island descent and am
>     currently work- ing on a project to preserve, document and protect
>     the Top Western Torres Strait Island dialect of Kalaw Kawaw Ya (KKY).
>
>     Today KKY, like many other Australian Indigenous languages, is
>     endan- gered. The loss of languages is more than just the loss of
>     spoken word. It has always been explained to me that languages are
>     a reflection of a peo- ple’s soul and way of living in the world.
>     Speakers and descendants of a language have a role to play in the
>     preservation and maintenance of that language but so too do people
>     who work with those languages, including linguists. It’s important
>     that linguists are cognisant of the role they play in acting as a
>     facilitator in the preservation of languages. Linguists also need
>     to be aware that language data gathered is presented in a way that
>     reflects the good faith in which it was given.
>
>     I was at a linguistics workshop recently where the presenters
>     offered sen- tences from an Aboriginal language. One of the
>     sentences presented in the targeted language translated into
>     English as ‘The man hit the woman’. For the purpose of the
>     exercise it seemed to me to be an unnecessary display of a
>     negative stereotype in a forum of predominately non-Indigenous
>     linguists.
>
>     Thinking of language data beyond something to be scientifically
>     analysed and being cognisant that the language you’re working with
>     comes from the soul of a people would surely go some way to
>     avoiding such unnecessary representations.”
>
>     Regards, Felicity
>
>     _________________________________________
>
>     Prof Felicity Meakins FASSA  | Australian Research Council (ARC)
>     Future Fellow |
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>     ARC Centre of Excellence for the Dynamics of Language
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>     *From:*Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org
>     <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of
>     Hagay Schurr <hschurr at gradcenter.cuny.edu
>     <mailto:hschurr at gradcenter.cuny.edu>>
>     *Date:* Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 4:19 am
>     *To:* "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>     <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>"
>     <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>     <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>     *Subject:* [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
>
>     Dear Sebastian,
>
>     I'm only aware of the debate around LSA guidelines in the early
>     2000's, including, among others, Postal's (2003, 187) reply  :
>
>     "it is arbitrary and discriminatory to try policing them only with
>     respect to one or more favored victim groups, the policing code is
>     necessarily incompatible with the principle of free speech, and,
>     finally, it is in any event not possible to actually codify usage
>     conditions that genuinely pick out all and only the offensive.
>     Given all this, codes like the LSA guidelines are in part harmful
>     and in part useless." (Postal 2003, 187).
>
>     Postal's paper will lead you to some relevant publications that
>     defends policing to some extent.
>
>     Best,
>
>     Hagay
>
>     Postal, P. M. (2003). Policing the content of linguistic examples.
>     /Language/, /79/(1), 182-188.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:*Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on
>     behalf of
>     lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org<lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>     *Sent:* Friday, March 18, 2022 12:00 PM
>     *To:*
>     lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>     *Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Lingtyp Digest, Vol 90, Issue 21
>
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>     Today's Topics:
>
>        1. Reference for violence (hit,      kill) in articles in
>     linguistics
>           needed (Sebastian Nordhoff)
>
>
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Message: 1
>     Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:51:15 +0100
>     From: Sebastian Nordhoff <sebastian.nordhoff at glottotopia.de>
>     To: "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org"
>             <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>     Subject: [Lingtyp] Reference for violence (hit, kill) in articles in
>             linguistics needed
>     Message-ID: <7a23c27d-4cc4-e57b-37c6-ac5570a6d144 at glottotopia.de>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>     Dear all,
>     I have occasionally been part in discussions where the frequent use of
>     violent concepts such as 'hit' or 'kill' in linguistics is
>     mentioned and
>     sometimes criticized.
>
>     I believe there is some research article providing empirical evidence
>     for  linguistic articles being unnecessarily "violent", but I am
>     unable
>     to locate it. Could the list members help me?
>
>     Best wishes
>     Sebastian
>
>     PS: I am aware that 'hit' and 'kill' have a number of semantic
>     properties which make them very suitable for a number of research
>     questions.
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
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