[Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
David Nash
david.nash at anu.edu.au
Tue Mar 22 02:56:42 UTC 2022
A short answer Ilana would be: 'Canonical Typology'
https://www.smg.surrey.ac.uk/approaches/canonical-typology/
With pedagogical implications.
Yes, a great discussion topic; and I think Daniel Ross's post in
particular has much food for thought!
David
On 22/3/2022 13:11, Ilana Mushin wrote:
>
> Great discussion topic! I’m intrigued by the focus on finding the best
> examples of transitive constructions, usually with two nominal
> arguments. These are hard to find ‘in the wild’, as clauses in
> everyday talk tends to involve intransitive (or lesser transitive)
> constructions with at least one zero or pronominal argument (DuBois’
> preferred argument structure). To what purpose should we be trying to
> find the extreme ends of what is possible grammatically, if this is
> not something that speakers themselves appear to be concerned with in
> their daily uses of language (which is where grammaticalization takes
> place)?
>
> Ilana
>
> --
>
> Ilana Mushin
>
> Professor of Linguistics
>
> Deputy Head of School
>
> President, Australian Linguistic Society
>
> /var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.pngCo-Editor,
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> *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf
> of Felicity Meakins <f.meakins at uq.edu.au>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 11:36 am
> *To: *Spreng, Bettina <bettina.spreng at usask.ca>, JOO, Ian [Student]
> <ian.joo at connect.polyu.hk>, lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
>
> Yes although I think the Hopper and Thomason argument would be about
> the relative animacy of the A and O roles
>
> *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf
> of "Spreng, Bettina" <bettina.spreng at usask.ca>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 10:51 am
> *To: *"JOO, Ian [Student]" <ian.joo at connect.polyu.hk>,
> "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org" <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
>
> I think it’s definitely worth considering. Prototypically transitive
> verbs can be used quite differently.
>
> Hit a ball, a tree, anything that maybe isn’t a woman?
>
> Chop wood, cut bread, kiss a woman?
>
> Some violent words can be used in the hunting context. In Inuit
> languages, we often use
>
> Killing or shooting a polar bear. There is nothing problematic about that.
>
> So often, I change genders in examples because they are so
> stereotyical. So, this goes beyond the indigenous stereotypes but
> stereotypes in general.
>
> John kissed Mary.
>
> Mary likes John.
>
> John gives Mary a book.
>
> With females being receivers, or receptacles, subjects of psych verbs,
> etc.
>
> It goes beyond the indigenous context but that is a particularly
> sensitive one.
>
> Once you pay attention, it’s quite blatant.
>
> *Dr. Bettina Spreng*
>
> Assistant Professor, Department of Linguistics
>
> College of Arts & Sciences | University of Saskatchewan
>
> P: (306) 966-1440
>
> Arts Building, Room 911
>
> 9 Campus Drive, Saskatoon, SK S7N 5A5
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> *From:*Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> *On Behalf
> Of *JOO, Ian [Student]
> *Sent:* Monday, March 21, 2022 6:05 PM
> *To:* lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
>
> CAUTION:External to USask. Verify sender and use caution with links
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>
> Is “hug” and “carry” as transtive as “hit”, though?
> According to Hopper and Thompson (1980), one of the factors of
> transitivity is the affectedness of the patient.
> Hugging or carrying someone does not affect them as much as hitting does.
> Also “hug” is not so basic a word as “hit” is, which is in the Swadesh
> List or the Leipzig-Jakarta List.
> Of course, hitting someone is a bad thing to do. But I don’t think
> linguists should avoid certain sentences because they depict something
> morally bad.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ian
>
> On 22. Mar 2022, 00:54 +0100, Felicity Meakins <f.meakins at uq.edu.au>,
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> We also comment on this in our field methods textbook (p. 129) and
> use a reflection from Torres Strait Islander linguist Al Harvey
> about this issue to illustrate how it can affect communities:
>
> Meakins, F., Green, J., & Turpin, M. (2018). /Understanding
> linguistic fieldwork/. London: Routledge.
>
> “One of the problems with publishing some of the sentences made up
> by linguists is that they become instantiations of culture and may
> perpetuate negative stereotypes about often already marginalised
> people. For example, grammars are full of sen- tences exemplifying
> transitivity using verbs that denote violence. ‘Hit’ is a classic
> transitive verb, but so is ‘hug’ or ‘carry’. When you construct
> sentences for elicita- tion, avoid topics that refer to violence,
> sex, alcohol, drugs (including smoking), child abuse or neglect,
> as these may upset people down the track. Also bear in mind that
> descendants of the speakers may read the grammar in years to come,
> or may be an audience member in a presentation using data you
> collected. Imagine that you are trying to re-construct your
> language and the only verb in the corpus is ‘hit’!
>
> *Perpetuating negative stereotypes of communities – Al Harvey*
>
> My name is Al Harvey, I am of Saibai Island descent and am
> currently work- ing on a project to preserve, document and protect
> the Top Western Torres Strait Island dialect of Kalaw Kawaw Ya (KKY).
>
> Today KKY, like many other Australian Indigenous languages, is
> endan- gered. The loss of languages is more than just the loss of
> spoken word. It has always been explained to me that languages are
> a reflection of a peo- ple’s soul and way of living in the world.
> Speakers and descendants of a language have a role to play in the
> preservation and maintenance of that language but so too do people
> who work with those languages, including linguists. It’s important
> that linguists are cognisant of the role they play in acting as a
> facilitator in the preservation of languages. Linguists also need
> to be aware that language data gathered is presented in a way that
> reflects the good faith in which it was given.
>
> I was at a linguistics workshop recently where the presenters
> offered sen- tences from an Aboriginal language. One of the
> sentences presented in the targeted language translated into
> English as ‘The man hit the woman’. For the purpose of the
> exercise it seemed to me to be an unnecessary display of a
> negative stereotype in a forum of predominately non-Indigenous
> linguists.
>
> Thinking of language data beyond something to be scientifically
> analysed and being cognisant that the language you’re working with
> comes from the soul of a people would surely go some way to
> avoiding such unnecessary representations.”
>
> Regards, Felicity
>
> _________________________________________
>
> Prof Felicity Meakins FASSA | Australian Research Council (ARC)
> Future Fellow |
>
> ARC Centre of Excellence for the Dynamics of Language
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> *From:*Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org
> <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of
> Hagay Schurr <hschurr at gradcenter.cuny.edu
> <mailto:hschurr at gradcenter.cuny.edu>>
> *Date:* Saturday, 19 March 2022 at 4:19 am
> *To:* "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>"
> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
> *Subject:* [Lingtyp] On policing linguistic examples
>
> Dear Sebastian,
>
> I'm only aware of the debate around LSA guidelines in the early
> 2000's, including, among others, Postal's (2003, 187) reply :
>
> "it is arbitrary and discriminatory to try policing them only with
> respect to one or more favored victim groups, the policing code is
> necessarily incompatible with the principle of free speech, and,
> finally, it is in any event not possible to actually codify usage
> conditions that genuinely pick out all and only the offensive.
> Given all this, codes like the LSA guidelines are in part harmful
> and in part useless." (Postal 2003, 187).
>
> Postal's paper will lead you to some relevant publications that
> defends policing to some extent.
>
> Best,
>
> Hagay
>
> Postal, P. M. (2003). Policing the content of linguistic examples.
> /Language/, /79/(1), 182-188.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on
> behalf of
> lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org<lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 18, 2022 12:00 PM
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> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL]Lingtyp Digest, Vol 90, Issue 21
>
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Reference for violence (hit, kill) in articles in
> linguistics
> needed (Sebastian Nordhoff)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 12:51:15 +0100
> From: Sebastian Nordhoff <sebastian.nordhoff at glottotopia.de>
> To: "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org"
> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> Subject: [Lingtyp] Reference for violence (hit, kill) in articles in
> linguistics needed
> Message-ID: <7a23c27d-4cc4-e57b-37c6-ac5570a6d144 at glottotopia.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Dear all,
> I have occasionally been part in discussions where the frequent use of
> violent concepts such as 'hit' or 'kill' in linguistics is
> mentioned and
> sometimes criticized.
>
> I believe there is some research article providing empirical evidence
> for linguistic articles being unnecessarily "violent", but I am
> unable
> to locate it. Could the list members help me?
>
> Best wishes
> Sebastian
>
> PS: I am aware that 'hit' and 'kill' have a number of semantic
> properties which make them very suitable for a number of research
> questions.
>
>
>
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