[Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
Pier Marco Bertinetto
piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it
Fri Jun 16 10:23:08 UTC 2023
Cazzo! What a nice community, put together by a swearword!
However, Paolo, I do not share your analysis. You say:
…"Non ho un cazzo", with double negation and article…
I do not consider it a case of double negation, but rather of intensified
negation.
This word becomes a real negator only in sentences like "col cazzo che...".
Well, there are more important things to deal with.
Ciao
Pier Marco
Il giorno ven 16 giu 2023 alle ore 12:17 Randy John LaPolla <
RandyLaPolla at ntu.edu.sg> ha scritto:
> Thanks very much, Professor Ramat!
>
> All the best,
> Randy
>
> Sent from my phone
>
> On 16 Jun 2023, at 5:55 PM, Paolo Ramat <paoram at unipv.it> wrote:
>
>
>
> *[Alert:
> Non-NTU Email] Be cautious before clicking any link or attachment.*
>
> Dear Randy, the plural _cats_ is phonetically equivalent to Ital.
> _cazzo_ /'katso/ with the usual dropping of the final vowel (more exactly
> a schwa). Consequently, _cats_ seems ti be a loanword / espression used in
> particular not formal contexts -- though the non-standard Ital. usual
> vulgar form for "I have nothing" would be "Non ho un cazzo", with double
> negation and article.
> Best,
> Paolo
>
> Il Ven 16 Giu 2023, 10:57 Randy John LaPolla <RandyLaPolla at ntu.edu.sg> ha
> scritto:
>
>> Hi Pier,
>> Growing up in an Italian neighborhood in New York, we would use a lot of
>> Italian terms in our English, and one common expression (pronounced in the
>> Napolitano way, with the final vowel dropped, as with Maron for Madona)
>> was, for example if you were playing cards or some other game, “I got
>> kats”, meaning 'I have nothing’.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Randy
>> ——
>> Professor Randy J. LaPolla（罗仁地), PhD FAHA
>> Center for Language Sciences
>> Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences
>> Beijing Normal University, Zhuhai Campus
>> A302, Muduo Building, #18 Jinfeng Road, Zhuhai City, Guangdong, China
>>
>> 邮编：519000
>> 广东省珠海市唐家湾镇金凤路18号木铎楼A302
>> 北京师范大学珠海校区
>> 人文和社会科学高等研究院
>> 语言科学研究中心
>>
>> On 15 Jun 2023, at 12:15 AM, Pier Marco Bertinetto <
>> piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>> I was hoping somebody else would provide the Italian view on this, but
>> since nobody did... (well, Paolo Ramat did, but there is more to say about
>> it).
>>
>> The word *cazzo* [katso] 'penis' is very often heard in colloquial
>> speech, and one can now also hear it in the media, especially in
>> entertainment programs (inconceivable until some 20 years ago).
>> It can be used in different ways, for instance as a self-contained
>> exclamation, expressing a wide range of meanings (both positive and
>> negative ones).
>> As far as I can tell, in negative clauses it is used in two ways:
>>
>> 1) as a negation emphasizer
>> *Non ho capito un cazzo*
>> 'I did not understand a hell (of it)'
>>
>> 2) as an emphatic negator
>> *Col cazzo che ho capito* [lit. 'with the penis that I understood';
>> strong emphasis on *cazzo*]
>> Same meaning as above, but with the pragmatic addition of reacting to the
>> contrary opinion (possibly, merely hypothesized as a rhetorical
>> alternative).
>>
>> Needless to say, there are vernacular alternatives, like the originally
>> Sicilian *minchia* [minkja], which is a possible alternative in usage
>> (1). I am not sure I ever heard it in usage (2), but I cannot exclude that
>> some people do. The interest here lies in the incipient grammaticalization
>> path that one can detect from intensifier (1) to actual negator (2).
>>
>> Ad maiora!
>> Pier Marco
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno mar 13 giu 2023 alle ore 22:50 Miestamo, Matti M P <
>> matti.miestamo at helsinki.fi> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Hi, All,
>>>
>>> Finnish is quite interesting in this regard. Swearwords (e.g. paskat
>>> ’shit’, vittu ’female genitals (vulgar)') can be used as negators clause
>>> initially. The standard negation construction in Finnish has a negative
>>> auxiliary inflected for person and number, and then the lexical verb
>>> appears in a non-finite connegative form. Interestingly, with these
>>> swearwords used as negators, the lexical verb can also appear in the
>>> connegative form, so the swearword takes the place of the negative
>>> auxiliary in the construction. There is some variation, though, and
>>> sometimes the lexical verb occurs with finite inflecttions. Here are some
>>> (colloquial Southern FInnish) examples:
>>>
>>> Mä laulan suihkus ’I sing in the shower'
>>> 1SG sing.1SG shower.INE
>>>
>>> Mä en laula suihkus ’I don’t sing in the shower'
>>> 1SG NEG.1SG sing.CNG shower.INE
>>>
>>> En mä suihkus laula ’I don’t sing in the *shower*’ (more contrastive
>>> with the negator appearing initially)
>>> NEG.1SG 1SG shower.INE sing.CNG
>>>
>>> Vittu mä suihkus laula ’I *don’t* sing in the shower’, ’The hell I sing
>>> in the shower’
>>> SW 1SG shower.INE sing.CNG
>>>
>>> Vitut mä suihkus laulan ’I *don’t* sing in the shower’, ’The hell I sing
>>> in the shower’
>>> SW.PL <http://sw.pl/> 1SG shower.INE sing.1SG
>>>
>>> (It has even been suggested that the personal pronoun is cliticized to
>>> the swearword and then it could be seen as a paradigm — vittu-mä, vittu-sä,
>>> etc. that has been half-humorously called the aggressive mood...)
>>>
>>> The system is more complicated than can be shown here, but I hope this
>>> gives an idea of how it basically works. Unfortunately there isn’t much
>>> written on it in English. (Note also that it is in many ways related to an
>>> emphatic negative construction where negation is expressed without overt
>>> negators; there is a short account of this in my paper "Negatives without
>>> negators” in the 2010 Rara Rarissima volume.)
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Matti
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matti Miestamo
>>> https://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/matmies/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Eline Visser <eelienu at pm.me> kirjoitti 13.6.2023 kello 22.51:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Norwegian has:
>>> >
>>> > Veita faen/søren
>>> > Know devil
>>> > ‘I don’t know.’
>>> >
>>> > (Alt. spelling veit/vet da faen/søren if you want to google.)
>>> >
>>> > I can’t think of anything in my native language Dutch but would be
>>> interested to learn.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 16:42, <
>>> lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Send Lingtyp mailing list submissions to
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>>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> >> than "Re: Contents of Lingtyp digest..."
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>>> >>
>>> >> Today's Topics:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective (Stefan Savi?)
>>> >> 2. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective (Tom Koss)
>>> >> 3. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective (Mira Ariel)
>>> >> 4. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective (Pun Ho Lui)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Message: 1
>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 16:16:52 +0200
>>> >> From: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com>
>>> >> To: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com>
>>> >> Cc: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>,
>>> >> "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"
>>> >> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> Message-ID:
>>> >> <CA+1szGCw4YpZEcZP_1eFvaTqyygncsoho9RYrBBMTixTMFNSpA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >>
>>> >> Same applies to BCMS *?avola*:
>>> >>
>>> >> ?avola mi je pomogao.
>>> >>
>>> >> devil.m.sg.gen pron.1sg.dat be.prs.3sg help.pfv.pst.m.sg
>>> >> =
>>> >> Kurac mi je pomogao.
>>> >> cock.m.sg.nom pron.1sg.dat be.prs.3sg help.pfv.pst.m.sg
>>> >> "He helped me, my ass" (= He didn't help me at all).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 15:51, Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > This is true.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing,
>>> can
>>> >> > qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for
>>> 'I don't
>>> >> > / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This
>>> is pretty
>>> >> > common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a
>>> rare
>>> >> > phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know;
>>> this is
>>> >> > unclear' from lit. penis knows.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Michael
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Dear all,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was
>>> swear
>>> >> >> words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
>>> >> >> So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those
>>> like ?I
>>> >> >> know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Regards,
>>> >> >> Ian
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>> ??:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already
>>> >> >> discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on
>>> negation,
>>> >> >> and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and
>>> others
>>> >> >> (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis
>>> (mainly
>>> >> >> *zayin* and *zibbi*, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior
>>> >> >> mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For
>>> instance,
>>> >> >>> in Spanish you can find the following:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?I don?t care at all.?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly,
>>> are
>>> >> >>> quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional,
>>> and, for
>>> >> >>> some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Following up on the comment about *?avola *("devil") in
>>> >> >>> BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance
>>> (illustrated
>>> >> >>> below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This
>>> construction
>>> >> >>> also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., *carajo
>>> *?shit?, *cojones
>>> >> >>> *?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English,
>>> are
>>> >> >>> described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked?
>>> wh-phrases.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?Qu? demonios quieres?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> What devils want.2sg
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?What the hell do you want??
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Best wishes,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Chad Howe
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding.
>>> In *The
>>> >> >>> representation of (in)definiteness*, ed. by Eric Reuland and
>>> Alice G.
>>> >> >>> B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on
>>> behalf
>>> >> >>> of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com>
>>> >> >>> *Date: *Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>>> >> >>> *To: *Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com>
>>> >> >>> *Cc: *lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <
>>> >> >>> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> >>> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or
>>> minimizer: a
>>> >> >>> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP
>>> in
>>> >> >>> different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very
>>> similar
>>> >> >>> to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that
>>> "??" is a
>>> >> >>> negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and
>>> commonly (though
>>> >> >>> not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am
>>> not sure
>>> >> >>> how to gloss it.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Sincerely,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Michael Daniel
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg-Dat, and not money
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting
>>> any
>>> >> >>> money'
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?? ??? (??????-???)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com
>>> >:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form
>>> *?avola
>>> >> >>> *("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear
>>> word per
>>> >> >>> se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious
>>> terms). As a
>>> >> >>> matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative
>>> singular
>>> >> >>> *kurac* is often replaceable with the genitive singular *?avola
>>> *(whereby
>>> >> >>> the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Best,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Stefan
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Dear linguists,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or
>>> >> >>> minimizer/?squatitive? (2):
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> (1) Cantonese
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ? ? ?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 1sg dick know
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?I don?t know.?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?I learn nothing.?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Russian
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - German *einen Teufel *?a devil?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Swedish *s? fan Heller*
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> *- *French *mon cul* ?my ass? (?)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Polish *chuj *?dick?; *g?wno *?shit?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Serbian *kurac *?penis'
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Croatian *kurac ?penis?*
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> These examples are provided in:
>>> >> >>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar
>>> >> >>> constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Thank you.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Warmest,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Pun Ho Lui
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> >>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> >> >>>
>>> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> Lingtyp mailing list
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>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> Lingtyp mailing list
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>>> >> >>>
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>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> Lingtyp mailing list
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>>> >> >>
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > Lingtyp mailing list
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>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Message: 2
>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:22:13 +0000
>>> >> From: Tom Koss <Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be>
>>> >> To: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com>, Ian Joo
>>> >> <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>
>>> >> Cc: "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"
>>> >> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> Message-ID:
>>> >> <
>>> AS8PR05MB10112968FB5D1D775431793A09A55A at AS8PR05MB10112.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear all,
>>> >>
>>> >> German einen Schei? ("a shit" in the accusative case) might also
>>> qualify.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ein-en ? ????? Schei? werde ich tun!
>>> >> INDF-ACC ?? shit FUT I do
>>> >> lit.: "A shit is what I will do!", intended: "I won't do anything."
>>> >>
>>> >> Ein-en ?????Schei? sehe ich.
>>> >> INDF-ACC shit see I
>>> >> lit.: "A shit is what I see!", intended: "I don't see anything."
>>> >>
>>> >> I think nowadays this expression is more common than einen Teufel,
>>> which sounds quite a bit dated.
>>> >>
>>> >> All best,
>>> >> Tom Koss
>>> >> PhD student University of Antwerp
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________
>>> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf
>>> of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 3:50 PM
>>> >> To: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>
>>> >> Cc: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <
>>> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
>>> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
>>> know the content is safe.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> This is true.
>>> >>
>>> >> But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing,
>>> can qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I
>>> don't / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is
>>> pretty common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a
>>> rare phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know;
>>> this is unclear' from lit. penis knows.
>>> >>
>>> >> Michael
>>> >>
>>> >> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp<mailto:
>>> ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>:
>>> >> Dear all,
>>> >>
>>> >> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was
>>> swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
>>> >> So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like
>>> ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Ian
>>> >>
>>> >> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il
>>> <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>> ??:
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already
>>> discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation,
>>> and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others
>>> (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>>> >>
>>> >> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly
>>> zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by
>>> Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu<mailto:
>>> chowe at uga.edu>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For
>>> instance, in Spanish you can find the following:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I don?t care at all.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are
>>> quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for
>>> some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in
>>> BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated
>>> below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction
>>> also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones
>>> ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are
>>> described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?Qu? demonios quieres?
>>> >>
>>> >> What devils want.2sg
>>> >>
>>> >> ?What the hell do you want??
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best wishes,
>>> >>
>>> >> Chad Howe
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In
>>> The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B.
>>> ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel
>>> <misha.daniel at gmail.com<mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
>>> >> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>>> >> To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com<mailto:
>>> stefansavicz at gmail.com>>
>>> >> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >>
>>> >> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in
>>> different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar
>>> to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a
>>> negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though
>>> not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure
>>> how to gloss it.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Michael Daniel
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????
>>> >>
>>> >> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows
>>> >>
>>> >> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????
>>> >>
>>> >> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg-Dat, and not money
>>> >>
>>> >> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any
>>> money'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?? ??? (??????-???)
>>> >>
>>> >> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>>> >>
>>> >> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form
>>> ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word
>>> per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a
>>> matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac
>>> is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter
>>> sounds considerably milder than the former).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best,
>>> >>
>>> >> Stefan
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com<mailto:
>>> luiph001 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear linguists,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or
>>> minimizer/?squatitive? (2):
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (1) Cantonese
>>> >>
>>> >> ? ? ?
>>> >>
>>> >> 1sg dick know
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I don?t know.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I learn nothing.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> - Russian
>>> >>
>>> >> - German einen Teufel ?a devil?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Swedish s? fan Heller
>>> >>
>>> >> - French mon cul ?my ass? (?)
>>> >>
>>> >> - Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Serbian kurac ?penis'
>>> >>
>>> >> - Croatian kurac ?penis?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> These examples are provided in:
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar
>>> constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Warmest,
>>> >>
>>> >> Pun Ho Lui
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> >> URL: <
>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/fc5d375a/attachment-0001.htm
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Message: 3
>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:33:11 +0000
>>> >> From: Mira Ariel <mariel at tauex.tau.ac.il>
>>> >> To: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>,
>>> >> "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"
>>> >> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> Message-ID:
>>> >> <
>>> AM6PR02MB397587938E4F71B1C992F6E6D055A at AM6PR02MB3975.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> True, but we know the fate of negative strengtheners. Think of French
>>> pas...
>>> >>
>>> >> Mira
>>> >> ________________________________
>>> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf
>>> of Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 6:43 AM
>>> >> To: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <
>>> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear all,
>>> >>
>>> >> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was
>>> swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
>>> >> So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like
>>> ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Ian
>>> >>
>>> >> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>
>>> ??:
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already
>>> discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation,
>>> and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others
>>> (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>>> >>
>>> >> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly
>>> zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by
>>> Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu<mailto:
>>> chowe at uga.edu>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For
>>> instance, in Spanish you can find the following:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I don?t care at all.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are
>>> quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for
>>> some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in
>>> BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated
>>> below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction
>>> also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones
>>> ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are
>>> described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?Qu? demonios quieres?
>>> >>
>>> >> What devils want.2sg
>>> >>
>>> >> ?What the hell do you want??
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best wishes,
>>> >>
>>> >> Chad Howe
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In
>>> The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B.
>>> ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel
>>> <misha.daniel at gmail.com<mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
>>> >> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>>> >> To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com<mailto:
>>> stefansavicz at gmail.com>>
>>> >> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >>
>>> >> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in
>>> different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar
>>> to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a
>>> negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though
>>> not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure
>>> how to gloss it.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Michael Daniel
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????
>>> >>
>>> >> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows
>>> >>
>>> >> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????
>>> >>
>>> >> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg-Dat, and not money
>>> >>
>>> >> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any
>>> money'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?? ??? (??????-???)
>>> >>
>>> >> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>>> >>
>>> >> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form
>>> ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word
>>> per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a
>>> matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac
>>> is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter
>>> sounds considerably milder than the former).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best,
>>> >>
>>> >> Stefan
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com<mailto:
>>> luiph001 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear linguists,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or
>>> minimizer/?squatitive? (2):
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (1) Cantonese
>>> >>
>>> >> ? ? ?
>>> >>
>>> >> 1sg dick know
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I don?t know.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I learn nothing.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> - Russian
>>> >>
>>> >> - German einen Teufel ?a devil?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Swedish s? fan Heller
>>> >>
>>> >> - French mon cul ?my ass? (?)
>>> >>
>>> >> - Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Serbian kurac ?penis'
>>> >>
>>> >> - Croatian kurac ?penis?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> These examples are provided in:
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar
>>> constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Warmest,
>>> >>
>>> >> Pun Ho Lui
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org<mailto:
>>> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>>> >>
>>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> >> URL: <
>>> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/b93c89ca/attachment-0001.htm
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Message: 4
>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 22:42:30 +0800
>>> >> From: Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com>
>>> >> To: Tom Koss <Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be>
>>> >> Cc: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com>, Ian Joo
>>> >> <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>, "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>"
>>> >> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> Message-ID: <9D27560B-27EA-4E7C-875F-D84E12AFE6A9 at gmail.com>
>>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Tom Koss,
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you for you example.
>>> >> Is it possible for ?shit? be accompanied by any negator/ ?nothing?
>>> and the like?
>>> >>
>>> >> Warmest,
>>> >> Pun Ho Lui (?Joe?)
>>> >> > Tom Koss <Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be> ? 2023?6?13? ??10:22 ???
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Dear all,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > German einen Schei? ("a shit" in the accusative case) might also
>>> qualify.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ein-en ? ????? Schei? werde ich tun!
>>> >> > INDF-ACC ?? shit FUT I do
>>> >> > lit.: "A shit is what I will do!", intended: "I won't do anything."
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ein-en ?????Schei? sehe ich.
>>> >> > INDF-ACC shit see I
>>> >> > lit.: "A shit is what I see!", intended: "I don't see anything."
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I think nowadays this expression is more common than einen Teufel,
>>> which sounds quite a bit dated.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > All best,
>>> >> > Tom Koss
>>> >> > PhD student University of Antwerp
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:
>>> lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel
>>> <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
>>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 3:50 PM
>>> >> > To: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>
>>> >> > Cc: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:
>>> LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> > Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> >
>>> >> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do
>>> not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
>>> know the content is safe.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > This is true.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing,
>>> can qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I
>>> don't / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is
>>> pretty common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a
>>> rare phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know;
>>> this is unclear' from lit. penis knows.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Michael
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:
>>> ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>:
>>> >> > Dear all,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was
>>> swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
>>> >> > So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like
>>> ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Regards,
>>> >> > Ian
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il
>>> <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>> ??:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already
>>> discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation,
>>> and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others
>>> (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis
>>> (mainly zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior
>>> mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu
>>> <mailto:chowe at uga.edu>> wrote:
>>> >> >> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For
>>> instance, in Spanish you can find the following:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>>> >> >> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>>> >> >> ?I don?t care at all.?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly,
>>> are quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for
>>> some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in
>>> BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated
>>> below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction
>>> also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones
>>> ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are
>>> described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ?Qu? demonios quieres?
>>> >> >> What devils want.2sg
>>> >> >> ?What the hell do you want??
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Best wishes,
>>> >> >> Chad Howe
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding.
>>> In The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G.
>>> B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:
>>> lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel
>>> <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
>>> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>>> >> >> To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:
>>> stefansavicz at gmail.com>>
>>> >> >> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:
>>> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>>> <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP
>>> in different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very
>>> similar to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??"
>>> is a negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly
>>> (though not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not
>>> sure how to gloss it.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Sincerely,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Michael Daniel
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????
>>> >> >> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows
>>> >> >> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????
>>> >> >> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg-Dat, and not money
>>> >> >> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting
>>> any money'
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ?? ??? (??????-???)
>>> >> >> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>>> >> >> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>:
>>> >> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form
>>> ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word
>>> per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a
>>> matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac
>>> is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter
>>> sounds considerably milder than the former).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Best,
>>> >> >> Stefan
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >> >> Dear linguists,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or
>>> minimizer/?squatitive? (2):
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> (1) Cantonese
>>> >> >> ? ? ?
>>> >> >> 1sg dick know
>>> >> >> ?I don?t know.?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>>> >> >> ?I learn nothing.?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> - Russian
>>> >> >> - German einen Teufel ?a devil?
>>> >> >> - Swedish s? fan Heller
>>> >> >> - French mon cul ?my ass? (?)
>>> >> >> - Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?
>>> >> >> - Serbian kurac ?penis'
>>> >> >> - Croatian kurac ?penis?
>>> >> >> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> These examples are provided in:
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/ <
>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar
>>> constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thank you.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Warmest,
>>> >> >> Pun Ho Lui
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
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>> --
>>
>> ========================================================= |||| Pier Marco Bertinetto
>> ------ professore emerito
>> /////// Scuola Normale Superiore
>> ------- p.za dei Cavalieri 7
>> /////// I-56126 PISA
>> ------- phone: +39 050 509111
>> ///////
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>> ===============================================================
>> editor of "Italian Journal of Linguistics"
>> webpage <https://www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Bertinetto_Pier>
>> ===============================================================
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> **Disclaimer** The sender of this email does not represent Nanyang
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--
=========================================================
|||| Pier Marco Bertinetto
------ professore emerito
/////// Scuola Normale Superiore
------- p.za dei Cavalieri 7
/////// I-56126 PISA
------- phone: +39 050 509111
///////
------- HOME
/////// via Matteotti 197
------- I-55049 Viareggio LU
/////// phone: +39 0584 652417
------- cell.: +39 368 3830251
===============================================================
editor of "Italian Journal of Linguistics"
webpage <https://www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Bertinetto_Pier>
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