[Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
Denys T.
denys.teptiuk at gmail.com
Sat Jun 17 14:42:47 UTC 2023
Dear all,
To add to what was mentioned before regarding Slavic languages, *surprise surprise* the same strategy with ‘penis’ can also be found in Ukrainian.
*Interestingly*, the same strategies are replicated in some Uralic languages in contact with Slavic. For instance, colloquial Estonian replicates the noun for ‘penis’ (hui) with the pattern (1a). [To my knowledge, the noun hui is used in colloquial Estonian mainly in the expressions calqued from Russian and is not used as a synonym of the Estonian nouns with the same meaning: https://www.eki.ee/cgi-bin/sl_dic/?7 <https://www.eki.ee/cgi-bin/sl_dic/?7>.]
Hungarian, in turn, seems to replicate only the pattern using its own vocabulary and, perhaps, formed according to the “rules” of the language where a body part more harmonically(?) gets a possessive suffix (hence: ‘my penis’).
(1) a. Estonian (etTenTen19)
hui oleks viitsinud
penis(Ru.) be:cond manage:pp
b. Russian (p.k.)
xuj by spravilsja
penis ptcl.cond manage.pst.m.
‘Penis I would have managed.’
(2) Hungarian (books.google.com <http://books.google.com/>)
a faszom tudja, kicsoda...
def penis:poss.1sg know:prs.1sg.def who
‘My penis knows who…’
*Even more interestingly*, it seems that the construction acquires an entirely different interpretation if the addressee-referring 2sg possessive suffix is used:
(3) Hungarian (tumblr.com)
Nem kell ezt túlspirázni, a faszod tudja mi kell neked.
neg need:prs.3sg dem.prox:acc overdo(?):inf def penis:2sg know:prs.3sg.def what need:prs.3sg dat:poss.2sg
‘No need to overdo(?) it, your penis knows what you need.’
As much as I can infer as a non-native Hungarian speaker/reader, 'your penis’ here means 'you alone' and not 'you don't'. I have only checked for the verb ‘know’ in Google since it was what I had encountered before, but it would be interesting to examine further if other verbs can be used the same way and if the change of possessor has the same effect everywhere.
Best wishes from Tartu!
Denys Teptiuk
> On 16. Jun 2023, at 13:17, Randy John LaPolla <RandyLaPolla at ntu.edu.sg> wrote:
>
> Thanks very much, Professor Ramat!
>
> All the best,
> Randy
>
> Sent from my phone
>
>> On 16 Jun 2023, at 5:55 PM, Paolo Ramat <paoram at unipv.it <mailto:paoram at unipv.it>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> [Alert: Non-NTU Email] Be cautious before clicking any link or attachment.
>>
>> Dear Randy, the plural _cats_ is phonetically equivalent to Ital. _cazzo_ /'katso/ with the usual dropping of the final vowel (more exactly a schwa). Consequently, _cats_ seems ti be a loanword / espression used in particular not formal contexts -- though the non-standard Ital. usual vulgar form for "I have nothing" would be "Non ho un cazzo", with double negation and article.
>> Best,
>> Paolo
>>
>> Il Ven 16 Giu 2023, 10:57 Randy John LaPolla <RandyLaPolla at ntu.edu.sg <mailto:RandyLaPolla at ntu.edu.sg>> ha scritto:
>> Hi Pier,
>> Growing up in an Italian neighborhood in New York, we would use a lot of Italian terms in our English, and one common expression (pronounced in the Napolitano way, with the final vowel dropped, as with Maron for Madona) was, for example if you were playing cards or some other game, “I got kats”, meaning 'I have nothing’.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Randy
>> ——
>> Professor Randy J. LaPolla（罗仁地), PhD FAHA
>> Center for Language Sciences
>> Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences
>> Beijing Normal University, Zhuhai Campus
>> A302, Muduo Building, #18 Jinfeng Road, Zhuhai City, Guangdong, China
>>
>> 邮编：519000
>> 广东省珠海市唐家湾镇金凤路18号木铎楼A302
>> 北京师范大学珠海校区
>> 人文和社会科学高等研究院
>> 语言科学研究中心
>>
>>> On 15 Jun 2023, at 12:15 AM, Pier Marco Bertinetto <piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it <mailto:piermarco.bertinetto at sns.it>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>> I was hoping somebody else would provide the Italian view on this, but since nobody did... (well, Paolo Ramat did, but there is more to say about it).
>>>
>>> The word cazzo [katso] 'penis' is very often heard in colloquial speech, and one can now also hear it in the media, especially in entertainment programs (inconceivable until some 20 years ago).
>>> It can be used in different ways, for instance as a self-contained exclamation, expressing a wide range of meanings (both positive and negative ones).
>>> As far as I can tell, in negative clauses it is used in two ways:
>>>
>>> 1) as a negation emphasizer
>>> Non ho capito un cazzo
>>> 'I did not understand a hell (of it)'
>>>
>>> 2) as an emphatic negator
>>> Col cazzo che ho capito [lit. 'with the penis that I understood'; strong emphasis on cazzo]
>>> Same meaning as above, but with the pragmatic addition of reacting to the contrary opinion (possibly, merely hypothesized as a rhetorical alternative).
>>>
>>> Needless to say, there are vernacular alternatives, like the originally Sicilian minchia [minkja], which is a possible alternative in usage (1). I am not sure I ever heard it in usage (2), but I cannot exclude that some people do. The interest here lies in the incipient grammaticalization path that one can detect from intensifier (1) to actual negator (2).
>>>
>>> Ad maiora!
>>> Pier Marco
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno mar 13 giu 2023 alle ore 22:50 Miestamo, Matti M P <matti.miestamo at helsinki.fi <mailto:matti.miestamo at helsinki.fi>> ha scritto:
>>> Hi, All,
>>>
>>> Finnish is quite interesting in this regard. Swearwords (e.g. paskat ’shit’, vittu ’female genitals (vulgar)') can be used as negators clause initially. The standard negation construction in Finnish has a negative auxiliary inflected for person and number, and then the lexical verb appears in a non-finite connegative form. Interestingly, with these swearwords used as negators, the lexical verb can also appear in the connegative form, so the swearword takes the place of the negative auxiliary in the construction. There is some variation, though, and sometimes the lexical verb occurs with finite inflecttions. Here are some (colloquial Southern FInnish) examples:
>>>
>>> Mä laulan suihkus ’I sing in the shower'
>>> 1SG sing.1SG shower.INE
>>>
>>> Mä en laula suihkus ’I don’t sing in the shower'
>>> 1SG NEG.1SG sing.CNG shower.INE
>>>
>>> En mä suihkus laula ’I don’t sing in the *shower*’ (more contrastive with the negator appearing initially)
>>> NEG.1SG 1SG shower.INE sing.CNG
>>>
>>> Vittu mä suihkus laula ’I *don’t* sing in the shower’, ’The hell I sing in the shower’
>>> SW 1SG shower.INE sing.CNG
>>>
>>> Vitut mä suihkus laulan ’I *don’t* sing in the shower’, ’The hell I sing in the shower’
>>> SW.PL <http://sw.pl/> 1SG shower.INE sing.1SG
>>>
>>> (It has even been suggested that the personal pronoun is cliticized to the swearword and then it could be seen as a paradigm — vittu-mä, vittu-sä, etc. that has been half-humorously called the aggressive mood...)
>>>
>>> The system is more complicated than can be shown here, but I hope this gives an idea of how it basically works. Unfortunately there isn’t much written on it in English. (Note also that it is in many ways related to an emphatic negative construction where negation is expressed without overt negators; there is a short account of this in my paper "Negatives without negators” in the 2010 Rara Rarissima volume.)
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Matti
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matti Miestamo
>>> https://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/matmies/ <https://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/matmies/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Eline Visser <eelienu at pm.me <mailto:eelienu at pm.me>> kirjoitti 13.6.2023 kello 22.51:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Norwegian has:
>>> >
>>> > Veita faen/søren
>>> > Know devil
>>> > ‘I don’t know.’
>>> >
>>> > (Alt. spelling veit/vet da faen/søren if you want to google.)
>>> >
>>> > I can’t think of anything in my native language Dutch but would be interested to learn.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 16:42, <lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org>> wrote:
>>> >>
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>>> >> Today's Topics:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective (Stefan Savi?)
>>> >> 2. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective (Tom Koss)
>>> >> 3. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective (Mira Ariel)
>>> >> 4. Re: Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective (Pun Ho Lui)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Message: 1
>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 16:16:52 +0200
>>> >> From: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>
>>> >> To: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
>>> >> Cc: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>,
>>> >> "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>>"
>>> >> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> Message-ID:
>>> >> <CA+1szGCw4YpZEcZP_1eFvaTqyygncsoho9RYrBBMTixTMFNSpA at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CA%2B1szGCw4YpZEcZP_1eFvaTqyygncsoho9RYrBBMTixTMFNSpA at mail.gmail.com>>
>>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >>
>>> >> Same applies to BCMS *?avola*:
>>> >>
>>> >> ?avola mi je pomogao.
>>> >>
>>> >> devil.m.sg.gen pron.1sg.dat be.prs.3sg help.pfv.pst.m.sg <http://help.pfv.pst.m.sg/>
>>> >> =
>>> >> Kurac mi je pomogao.
>>> >> cock.m.sg.nom pron.1sg.dat be.prs.3sg help.pfv.pst.m.sg <http://help.pfv.pst.m.sg/>
>>> >> "He helped me, my ass" (= He didn't help me at all).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 15:51, Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > This is true.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing, can
>>> >> > qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I don't
>>> >> > / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is pretty
>>> >> > common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a rare
>>> >> > phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know; this is
>>> >> > unclear' from lit. penis knows.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Michael
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Dear all,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was swear
>>> >> >> words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
>>> >> >> So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like ?I
>>> >> >> know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Regards,
>>> >> >> Ian
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>> ??:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already
>>> >> >> discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation,
>>> >> >> and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others
>>> >> >> (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly
>>> >> >> *zayin* and *zibbi*, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior
>>> >> >> mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu <mailto:chowe at uga.edu>> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance,
>>> >> >>> in Spanish you can find the following:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?I don?t care at all.?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are
>>> >> >>> quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for
>>> >> >>> some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Following up on the comment about *?avola *("devil") in
>>> >> >>> BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated
>>> >> >>> below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction
>>> >> >>> also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., *carajo *?shit?, *cojones
>>> >> >>> *?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are
>>> >> >>> described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?Qu? demonios quieres?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> What devils want.2sg
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?What the hell do you want??
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Best wishes,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Chad Howe
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In *The
>>> >> >>> representation of (in)definiteness*, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G.
>>> >> >>> B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf
>>> >> >>> of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
>>> >> >>> *Date: *Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>>> >> >>> *To: *Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>
>>> >> >>> *Cc: *lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> <
>>> >> >>> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> >>> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> >>> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in
>>> >> >>> different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar
>>> >> >>> to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a
>>> >> >>> negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though
>>> >> >>> not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure
>>> >> >>> how to gloss it.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Sincerely,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Michael Daniel
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg <http://you.sg/>-Dat, and not money
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any
>>> >> >>> money'
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?? ??? (??????-???)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form *?avola
>>> >> >>> *("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per
>>> >> >>> se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a
>>> >> >>> matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular
>>> >> >>> *kurac* is often replaceable with the genitive singular *?avola *(whereby
>>> >> >>> the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Best,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Stefan
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Dear linguists,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or
>>> >> >>> minimizer/?squatitive? (2):
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> (1) Cantonese
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ? ? ?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 1sg dick know
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?I don?t know.?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> ?I learn nothing.?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Russian
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - German *einen Teufel *?a devil?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Swedish *s? fan Heller*
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> *- *French *mon cul* ?my ass? (?)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Polish *chuj *?dick?; *g?wno *?shit?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Serbian *kurac *?penis'
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Croatian *kurac ?penis?*
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> These examples are provided in:
>>> >> >>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/ <https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar
>>> >> >>> constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Thank you.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Warmest,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Pun Ho Lui
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> >>>
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>>> >> >>>
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>>> >> ------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Message: 2
>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:22:13 +0000
>>> >> From: Tom Koss <Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be <mailto:Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be>>
>>> >> To: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>, Ian Joo
>>> >> <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>
>>> >> Cc: "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>>"
>>> >> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> Message-ID:
>>> >> <AS8PR05MB10112968FB5D1D775431793A09A55A at AS8PR05MB10112.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com <mailto:AS8PR05MB10112968FB5D1D775431793A09A55A at AS8PR05MB10112.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear all,
>>> >>
>>> >> German einen Schei? ("a shit" in the accusative case) might also qualify.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ein-en ? ????? Schei? werde ich tun!
>>> >> INDF-ACC ?? shit FUT I do
>>> >> lit.: "A shit is what I will do!", intended: "I won't do anything."
>>> >>
>>> >> Ein-en ?????Schei? sehe ich.
>>> >> INDF-ACC shit see I
>>> >> lit.: "A shit is what I see!", intended: "I don't see anything."
>>> >>
>>> >> I think nowadays this expression is more common than einen Teufel, which sounds quite a bit dated.
>>> >>
>>> >> All best,
>>> >> Tom Koss
>>> >> PhD student University of Antwerp
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ________________________________
>>> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 3:50 PM
>>> >> To: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>
>>> >> Cc: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> This is true.
>>> >>
>>> >> But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing, can qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I don't / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is pretty common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a rare phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know; this is unclear' from lit. penis knows.
>>> >>
>>> >> Michael
>>> >>
>>> >> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp><mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>>:
>>> >> Dear all,
>>> >>
>>> >> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
>>> >> So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Ian
>>> >>
>>> >> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il><mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>>> ??:
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation, and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>>> >>
>>> >> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu <mailto:chowe at uga.edu><mailto:chowe at uga.edu <mailto:chowe at uga.edu>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance, in Spanish you can find the following:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I don?t care at all.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?Qu? demonios quieres?
>>> >>
>>> >> What devils want.2sg
>>> >>
>>> >> ?What the hell do you want??
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best wishes,
>>> >>
>>> >> Chad Howe
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com><mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>>
>>> >> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>>> >> To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com><mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>>
>>> >> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >>
>>> >> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure how to gloss it.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Michael Daniel
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????
>>> >>
>>> >> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows
>>> >>
>>> >> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????
>>> >>
>>> >> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg <http://you.sg/>-Dat, and not money
>>> >>
>>> >> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any money'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?? ??? (??????-???)
>>> >>
>>> >> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>>> >>
>>> >> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com><mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>>:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best,
>>> >>
>>> >> Stefan
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com><mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear linguists,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or minimizer/?squatitive? (2):
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (1) Cantonese
>>> >>
>>> >> ? ? ?
>>> >>
>>> >> 1sg dick know
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I don?t know.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I learn nothing.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> - Russian
>>> >>
>>> >> - German einen Teufel ?a devil?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Swedish s? fan Heller
>>> >>
>>> >> - French mon cul ?my ass? (?)
>>> >>
>>> >> - Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Serbian kurac ?penis'
>>> >>
>>> >> - Croatian kurac ?penis?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> These examples are provided in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/ <https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Warmest,
>>> >>
>>> >> Pun Ho Lui
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> >> URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/fc5d375a/attachment-0001.htm <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/fc5d375a/attachment-0001.htm>>
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Message: 3
>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:33:11 +0000
>>> >> From: Mira Ariel <mariel at tauex.tau.ac.il <mailto:mariel at tauex.tau.ac.il>>
>>> >> To: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>,
>>> >> "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>>"
>>> >> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> Message-ID:
>>> >> <AM6PR02MB397587938E4F71B1C992F6E6D055A at AM6PR02MB3975.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com <mailto:AM6PR02MB397587938E4F71B1C992F6E6D055A at AM6PR02MB3975.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> True, but we know the fate of negative strengtheners. Think of French pas...
>>> >>
>>> >> Mira
>>> >> ________________________________
>>> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>> on behalf of Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 6:43 AM
>>> >> To: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear all,
>>> >>
>>> >> technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
>>> >> So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Ian
>>> >>
>>> >> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>> ??:
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation, and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>>> >>
>>> >> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu <mailto:chowe at uga.edu><mailto:chowe at uga.edu <mailto:chowe at uga.edu>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance, in Spanish you can find the following:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I don?t care at all.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?Qu? demonios quieres?
>>> >>
>>> >> What devils want.2sg
>>> >>
>>> >> ?What the hell do you want??
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best wishes,
>>> >>
>>> >> Chad Howe
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com><mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>>
>>> >> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>>> >> To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com><mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>>
>>> >> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >>
>>> >> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure how to gloss it.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Michael Daniel
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????
>>> >>
>>> >> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows
>>> >>
>>> >> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????
>>> >>
>>> >> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg <http://you.sg/>-Dat, and not money
>>> >>
>>> >> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any money'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ?? ??? (??????-???)
>>> >>
>>> >> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>>> >>
>>> >> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com><mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>>:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best,
>>> >>
>>> >> Stefan
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com><mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear linguists,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or minimizer/?squatitive? (2):
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (1) Cantonese
>>> >>
>>> >> ? ? ?
>>> >>
>>> >> 1sg dick know
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I don?t know.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>>> >>
>>> >> ?I learn nothing.?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> - Russian
>>> >>
>>> >> - German einen Teufel ?a devil?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Swedish s? fan Heller
>>> >>
>>> >> - French mon cul ?my ass? (?)
>>> >>
>>> >> - Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Serbian kurac ?penis'
>>> >>
>>> >> - Croatian kurac ?penis?
>>> >>
>>> >> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> These examples are provided in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/ <https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Warmest,
>>> >>
>>> >> Pun Ho Lui
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Lingtyp mailing list
>>> >> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>>> >> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
>>> >>
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>>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> >> URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/b93c89ca/attachment-0001.htm <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20230613/b93c89ca/attachment-0001.htm>>
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> Message: 4
>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 22:42:30 +0800
>>> >> From: Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com>>
>>> >> To: Tom Koss <Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be <mailto:Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be>>
>>> >> Cc: Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>, Ian Joo
>>> >> <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>, "<LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>>"
>>> >> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a
>>> >> cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> Message-ID: <9D27560B-27EA-4E7C-875F-D84E12AFE6A9 at gmail.com <mailto:9D27560B-27EA-4E7C-875F-D84E12AFE6A9 at gmail.com>>
>>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Tom Koss,
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you for you example.
>>> >> Is it possible for ?shit? be accompanied by any negator/ ?nothing? and the like?
>>> >>
>>> >> Warmest,
>>> >> Pun Ho Lui (?Joe?)
>>> >> > Tom Koss <Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be <mailto:Tom.Koss at uantwerpen.be>> ? 2023?6?13? ??10:22 ???
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Dear all,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > German einen Schei? ("a shit" in the accusative case) might also qualify.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ein-en ? ????? Schei? werde ich tun!
>>> >> > INDF-ACC ?? shit FUT I do
>>> >> > lit.: "A shit is what I will do!", intended: "I won't do anything."
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ein-en ?????Schei? sehe ich.
>>> >> > INDF-ACC shit see I
>>> >> > lit.: "A shit is what I see!", intended: "I don't see anything."
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I think nowadays this expression is more common than einen Teufel, which sounds quite a bit dated.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > All best,
>>> >> > Tom Koss
>>> >> > PhD student University of Antwerp
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com> <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>>
>>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 3:50 PM
>>> >> > To: Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp> <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>>
>>> >> > Cc: <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>>
>>> >> > Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> >
>>> >> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > This is true.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > But I think my second Russian example, where 'penis' means nothing, can qualify; and also examples are possible like 'penis it knows' for 'I don't / no one knows', where no regular negative particle is used. This is pretty common in collquial communication, so much so that it made it to a rare phenomenon of acronym in spoken language - ?? [??ze] 'I don't know; this is unclear' from lit. penis knows.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Michael
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 15:44, Ian Joo <ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp> <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp <mailto:ian_joo at nucba.ac.jp>>>:
>>> >> > Dear all,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > technically speaking, I think Pun Ho Lui?s original question was swear words acting as negators, not just intensifiers.
>>> >> > So phrases like ?I don?t know shit? wouldn?t apply, only those like ?I know shit? (intended meaning: I don?t know anything).
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Regards,
>>> >> > Ian
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> 13/6/2023 ?? 3:37, Eitan Grossman <eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il> <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il <mailto:eitan.grossman at mail.huji.ac.il>>> ??:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Jespersen already discussed this phenomenon to some extent in his 1917 monograph on negation, and it was extended by many including Ross & Postal, Horn, and others (e.g., 'squatitive negation' as in 'You don't know doodly-squat.')
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> For the sake of typology, some of the Hebrew terms for penis (mainly zayin and zibbi, the latter a loanword) also show the behavior mentioned by Pun Ho Lui, Misha, and others.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 4:23?PM Lewis C Howe <chowe at uga.edu <mailto:chowe at uga.edu> <mailto:chowe at uga.edu <mailto:chowe at uga.edu>>> wrote:
>>> >> >> Hi Pun Ho Lui and all,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> These patterns are relatively common in Romance Languages. For instance, in Spanish you can find the following:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> (No) me importa un(a) co?o|pedo|chingada|polla|etc.
>>> >> >> NEG 1sg.ACC matter.3sg a vagina|fart|fuck|dick|etc.
>>> >> >> ?I don?t care at all.?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> There are a number of lexical options, which, not surprisingly, are quite dialectally diverse. The preverbal negation is optional, and, for some speakers in some collocations, may in fact be dispreferred.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Following up on the comment about ?avola ("devil") in BCMS/Serbo-Croation, there?s a similar construction in Romance (illustrated below in Spanish) that (typically) involves wh-words. This construction also includes similarly taboo lexical options?e.g., carajo ?shit?, cojones ?testicles?. These types of constructions, at least for English, are described by Pesetsky (1987) as ?Aggressively Non-D-Linked? wh-phrases.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ?Qu? demonios quieres?
>>> >> >> What devils want.2sg
>>> >> >> ?What the hell do you want??
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Best wishes,
>>> >> >> Chad Howe
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Pesetsky, D. 1987. Wh-in-situ: Movement and unselective binding. In The representation of (in)definiteness, ed. by Eric Reuland and Alice G. B. ter Meulen, 98-130. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org>>> on behalf of Michael Daniel <misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com> <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com <mailto:misha.daniel at gmail.com>>>
>>> >> >> Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:01 AM
>>> >> >> To: Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com> <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>>
>>> >> >> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>> <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org><mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <mailto:lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>>>
>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Swearwords as a negator and/or minimizer: a cross-linguistic perspective
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [EXTERNAL SENDER - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY]
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> In Russian strong speech, 'penis' is used as a non-referential NP in different type of emphatic negation; including constructions very similar to what you quote. See for examples, some way below. Note that "??" is a negative particle distinct from regular negative "??" and commonly (though not exclusively) used under the scope of clausal negation; I am not sure how to gloss it.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Sincerely,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Michael Daniel
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????
>>> >> >> he.nom not penis-Sg.Gen not knows
>>> >> >> 'he does not know anything at all'
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ??? ????, ? ?? ??????
>>> >> >> penis.Sg.Nom you.sg <http://you.sg/>-Dat, and not money
>>> >> >> 'You are not getting anything, you are not (instead of) getting any money'
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ?? ??? (??????-???)
>>> >> >> not penis-Sg.Gen (similar-N.Sg.Gen)
>>> >> >> 'Nothing like that at all!'
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ??, 13 ???. 2023??. ? 14:45, Stefan Savi? <stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com> <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com <mailto:stefansavicz at gmail.com>>>:
>>> >> >> Dear Pun Ho Lui, Dear All,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> In BCMS/Serbocroatian one can also use the genitive singular form ?avola ("devil") in the same function, now hardly considered a swear word per se, but once it definitely was (along with other religious terms). As a matter of fact, in numerous such instances, the nominative singular kurac is often replaceable with the genitive singular ?avola (whereby the latter sounds considerably milder than the former).
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Best,
>>> >> >> Stefan
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 14:35, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com> <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com <mailto:luiph001 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>> >> >> Dear linguists,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Swearwords/taboo words can function as a negator (1) or minimizer/?squatitive? (2):
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> (1) Cantonese
>>> >> >> ? ? ?
>>> >> >> 1sg dick know
>>> >> >> ?I don?t know.?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> (2) I learn fuck all/ shit.
>>> >> >> ?I learn nothing.?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Other languages with these pattens include:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> - Russian
>>> >> >> - German einen Teufel ?a devil?
>>> >> >> - Swedish s? fan Heller
>>> >> >> - French mon cul ?my ass? (?)
>>> >> >> - Polish chuj ?dick?; g?wno ?shit?
>>> >> >> - Serbian kurac ?penis'
>>> >> >> - Croatian kurac ?penis?
>>> >> >> - Colloquail Finnish ?aggressive mood?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> These examples are provided in: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/ <https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/ <https://www.facebook.com/groups/lingtyp/permalink/6751622964867235/>>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I am wondering if there are other languages performing similar constructions. If so, is the any requirement for using them.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thank you.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Warmest,
>>> >> >> Pun Ho Lui
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
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