[Lingtyp] Lingtyp Digest, Vol 108, Issue 8

Chris Donlay chrisdonlay at yahoo.com
Wed Sep 6 15:33:57 UTC 2023 

 Khatso, like many other Ngwi languages, also has classifiers with this function. Please see:
2017     Donlay,Chris. Family group classifiers in Khatso. SociohistoricalLinguistics in Southeast Asia: New Horizons for Tibeto-Burman studies in Honorof David Bradley, ed. by Jamin Pelkey and Picus Sizhi Ding. Leiden: BrillPublishers, 117-133. 

    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 05:03:45 AM PDT, lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:  
 
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Summary numeral in the world languages (Eline Visser)
  2. Re: Summary numeral in the world languages (Peter Austin)
  3. Re: Summary numeral in the world languages (Alexander Coupe)
  4. Re: Summary numeral in the world languages (Sergey Say)


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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 07:17:32 +0000
From: Eline Visser <eelienu at pm.me>
To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Summary numeral in the world languages
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Kalamang has something like this, described at the bottom of this page of my grammar: https://paperhive.org/documents/items/e7TDfjRZRHtB/text?a=p:200 and also here: https://paperhive.org/documents/items/e7TDfjRZRHtB?a=p:214.

Eline


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On Wednesday, September 6th, 2023 at 9:01 AM, lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp-request at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:


> 
> 
> Send Lingtyp mailing list submissions to
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> than "Re: Contents of Lingtyp digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Summary numeral in the world languages (Randy LaPolla)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 15:01:08 +0800
> From: Randy LaPolla randy.lapolla at gmail.com
> 
> To: Pun Ho Lui luiph001 at gmail.com
> 
> Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Summary numeral in the world languages
> Message-ID: D911FF92-B83F-4CD3-8EBE-242BA627B09A at gmail.com
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Dear Joe,
> See
> David Bradley, 2001, Counting the family: Family group classifiers in Yi (Tibeto-Burman) languages, Anthropological Linguistics 43.1: 1-17.
> 
> Randy
> 
> > On Sep 6, 2023, at 2:50 PM, Pun Ho Lui luiph001 at gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > ?Dear All,
> > 
> > Haspelmath (2007) and Croft (2022) discussed a coordinating construction in which a numeral ?summarizes? the number of referents in a list. There are different strategies in which the numeral behaves this way, e.g., a free numeral (1); a dual affix on a coordinand (2); a dual pronoun in apposition with the list+verb with dual marker (3). These numeral may be mono-syndetic or bi-syndatic.
> > 
> > (1) Zaozou
> > ?u55-mu55 na53 phi?33
> > 
> > 1-PL[EXCL] two father_and_child
> > 
> > ?we two (exclusive), my daughter and I.? (Li, 2020)
> > 
> > (2) Kham
> > syar sono:h pusum-ni
> > 
> > louse and flea-DL
> > 
> > ?the louse and the flea? (Watters, 2004)
> > 
> > (3) Mapudungu
> > (in?che?) eymi inchiu i-y-u
> > 
> > I you:SG we:DU eat-IND-1NONSG-DU
> > 
> > ?You and I ate.?
> > 
> > Languages with this construction I know are Zaozou, Kham, Mapudungu, Alto Perene?, Bangla, Cantonese, Mandarin, Papuan Malay, Yakut,
> > Inari Saami, Mongolian, Classical Tibetan, Huallaga Quechua, Wardaman, Khanty, Vedic Sanskrit, Mparntwe Arrernte, Daga, Mapudungu, Enets, Kham and Hualapai
> > 
> > I am wondering if there are other languages sharing similar constructions.
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > Warmest,
> > Joe Pun Ho Lui
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 07:38:46 +0000
From: Peter Austin <pa2 at soas.ac.uk>
To: Randy LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com>, Pun Ho Lui
    <luiph001 at gmail.com>
Cc: "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org"
    <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Summary numeral in the world languages
Message-ID:
    <PA4PR01MB7760C8889B2C604D36EC2799CBEFA at PA4PR01MB7760.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>
    
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Have a look at Frank Lichtenberk's work on what he dubbed "inclusory constructions" and many subsequent papers on Asia-Australia-Pacific languages. A Google search on the term will find many examples.

Best
Peter


________________________________
From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Randy LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 8:01:08 AM
To: Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com>
Cc: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Summary numeral in the world languages

Dear Joe,
See
David Bradley, 2001, Counting the family: Family group classifiers in Yi (Tibeto-Burman) languages, Anthropological Linguistics 43.1: 1-17.

Randy

On Sep 6, 2023, at 2:50 PM, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com> wrote:

?Dear All,

Haspelmath (2007) and Croft (2022) discussed a coordinating construction in which a numeral ?summarizes? the number of referents in a list. There are different strategies in which the numeral behaves this way, e.g., a free numeral (1); a dual affix on a coordinand (2); a dual pronoun in apposition with the list+verb with dual marker (3). These numeral may be mono-syndetic or bi-syndatic.


(1) Zaozou

?u55-mu55 na53 phi?33

1-PL[EXCL] two father_and_child

?we two (exclusive), my daughter and I.?  (Li, 2020)

(2) Kham

syar sono:h pusum-ni

louse and flea-DL

?the louse and the flea? (Watters, 2004)



(3)  Mapudungu
(in?che?) eymi    inchiu  i-y-u

 I          you:SG we:DU eat-IND-1NONSG-DU

  ?You and I ate.?

Languages with this construction I know are Zaozou, Kham, Mapudungu, Alto Perene?, Bangla, Cantonese, Mandarin, Papuan Malay, Yakut,

Inari Saami, Mongolian, Classical Tibetan, Huallaga Quechua, Wardaman, Khanty, Vedic Sanskrit, Mparntwe Arrernte, Daga, Mapudungu, Enets, Kham and Hualapai

I am wondering if there are other languages sharing similar constructions.

Thank you.

Warmest,
Joe Pun Ho Lui



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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 07:45:44 +0000
From: Alexander Coupe <ARCoupe at ntu.edu.sg>
To: Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com>,
    "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org"
    <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Summary numeral in the world languages
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Dear Joe,

You can add Mongsen Ao (TB, Nagaland) to your list:


            kiphu? n? a?wkla kh? ajila n?t a?hlu? n? z??k.
            kiphu?  n?      [a-u?k-la      kh?      a-ji-la          n?t]NP    a-hlu?                n?        z??k
            owner  agt    nrl-pig-f  conj  nrl-dog-f  two      nrl-field          all      send.pst
            ?An owner sent his dog and his pig to his field.? (Coupe 2007: 114)

There are more textual examples of this on pp. 207, 216, 217, 237, 239, 322, 325, 388, 469. ?Two? seems to be the only numeral that occurs in this role in my data, and I?m not sure if that?s because of defective sampling, or because there is a constraint on the use of other numerals in the summarizing function. The citation form of ?two? is an?t, so the loss of the prefix suggests that the numeral is somewhat grammaticalized in this construction.

https://www.academia.edu/1317662/A_Grammar_of_Mongsen_Ao

Best regards,
Alec

From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2023 at 2:51 PM
To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: [Lingtyp] Summary numeral in the world languages

[Alert: Non-NTU Email] Be cautious before clicking any link or attachment.
Dear All,

Haspelmath (2007) and Croft (2022) discussed a coordinating construction in which a numeral ?summarizes? the number of referents in a list. There are different strategies in which the numeral behaves this way, e.g., a free numeral (1); a dual affix on a coordinand (2); a dual pronoun in apposition with the list+verb with dual marker (3). These numeral may be mono-syndetic or bi-syndatic.


(1) Zaozou
?u55-mu55 na53 phi?33
1-PL[EXCL] two father_and_child
?we two (exclusive), my daughter and I.?  (Li, 2020)

(2) Kham
syar sono:h pusum-ni
louse and flea-DL
?the louse and the flea? (Watters, 2004)


(3)  Mapudungu
(in?che?) eymi    inchiu  i-y-u
 I          you:SG we:DU eat-IND-1NONSG-DU
  ?You and I ate.?

Languages with this construction I know are Zaozou, Kham, Mapudungu, Alto Perene?, Bangla, Cantonese, Mandarin, Papuan Malay, Yakut,
Inari Saami, Mongolian, Classical Tibetan, Huallaga Quechua, Wardaman, Khanty, Vedic Sanskrit, Mparntwe Arrernte, Daga, Mapudungu, Enets, Kham and Hualapai

I am wondering if there are other languages sharing similar constructions.

Thank you.

Warmest,
Joe Pun Ho Lui



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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 07:54:28 +0000 (UTC)
From: Sergey Say <serjozhka at yahoo.com>
To: Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com>
Cc: "lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org"
    <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Summary numeral in the world languages
Message-ID: <2065368717.2970746.1693986868016 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Dear Joe,
I see you that already have Mongolian on your list, but you can also add Kalmyk. In this consistently head-final language, the numeral comes after the coordinands and serves as the (only) morphosyntactic locus of the complex NP. 

(1)??? ter????? tu??l?????k?r????xojr-ar?????????ar-?????????this????calf???? cow???? two-INS????go_out-EV????????Lit. ?It went out through the calf and the cow? (Takenfrom a story where a curse didn't affect a woman because it affected her cowand her calf -- they unexpectedly died).
There is an interesting variation on this construction: the first component of the complex NP may be a very special 1PL or 2PL pronoun, as in (2). 

(2)????ma????xojr-in???????? bur-l?-n-a???????? ?????????????? ? t?l?????? ?? ???? ?s?????????? busl-ad??? ???????? g??-??????????we????two-GEN????chat-NMLZ-EXT-GEN????because.of?? milk-EXT????boil-CV.ANT? run-EV?????????Because the two of us were chatting, the milk boiled over.?
The ma pronoun in (2) is not marked for case and is actually different from the usual 1PL pronoun?mad?n, where?d?n is historically a plural morpheme.
The reference I can give is unfortunately in Russian (available here).

Say, S. S. 2009. Grammati?eskij o?erk kalmyckogo jazyka [= A grammar sketch of the Kalmyk language]. Acta Linguistica Petropolitana, V, 2. 622?709. 

All best,
Sergey




    On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 10:02:09 AM GMT+3, Randy LaPolla <randy.lapolla at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Dear Joe,See?
David Bradley, 2001, Counting the family: Family group classifiers in Yi (Tibeto-Burman) languages, Anthropological Linguistics 43.1: 1-17.

Randy

On Sep 6, 2023, at 2:50 PM, Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com> wrote:



? Dear All,
Haspelmath (2007) and Croft (2022) discussed a coordinating construction in which a numeral ?summarizes? the number of referents in a list. There are different strategies in which the numeral behaves this way, e.g., a free numeral (1); a dual affix on a coordinand (2); a dual pronoun in apposition with the list+verb with dual marker (3). These numeral may be mono-syndetic or bi-syndatic.

(1) Zaozou
?u55-mu55 na53 phi?33

1-PL[EXCL] two father_and_child?

?we two (exclusive), my daughter and I.? ?(Li, 2020)

(2) Kham?  
syar sono:h pusum-ni?

louse and flea-DL

?the louse and the flea? (Watters, 2004)


  
(3)??Mapudungu
(in?che?) eymi ? ?inchiu ? i-y-u

?I ? ? ? ? ?you:SG we:DU eat-IND-1NONSG-DU

???You and I ate.??

Languages with this construction I know are Zaozou, Kham, Mapudungu,?Alto Perene?,?Bangla, Cantonese, Mandarin,?PapuanMalay,?Yakut,?
InariSaami,?Mongolian,?ClassicalTibetan,?HuallagaQuechua,?Wardaman,?Khanty,?VedicSanskrit,?Mparntwe Arrernte,?Daga,?Mapudungu,?Enets,?Kham and?Hualapai

I am wondering if there are other languages sharing similar constructions.
Thank you.
Warmest,Joe Pun Ho Lui





  
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