[Lingtyp] Encoding "right before" across languages

Mon Apr 22 14:18:03 UTC 2024

Hi Pun,

In my survey of Australian languages, I found temporal 'before' markers to
be the least commonly attested out of the three basic temporal relations
(before, while, after). Although I have a few examples for 'right after'
(marked by either sequential markers, simultaneous markers like 'as soon
as', or an undedicated linking marker), I haven't come across any for
'right before', or at least anything that could be construed along those
lines.

This is a bit surprising, since quite a few Australian languages do have
the resources for marking immediate sequentiality -- e.g. serial and
sequential verb inflections (marking immediate sequence on the level of the
verb, clause), sequential discourse markers (marking sequence up to the
level of the sentence/text), 'immediate' aspect markers, and -- in some
languages -- markers of exactitude and limitation ('just...', 'right...').
So it's a good question why 'right before' is so hard to find here.

Best,
Ellison Luk

On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 09:58, Guillaume Jacques via Lingtyp <
lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:

> Dear Pun Ho Lui,
>
> In my Japhug grammar (https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295), the
> meaning "right before" is treated in the section on what I call "immediate
> precedence" ("be about to") §25.3.2.2 p.1399-1400. It seems to me that your
> example *Right before I sleep, I brush my teeth*. could be reformulated
> as *As I was about to go to sleep, I brushed my teeth*. without changing
> the truth conditions of this sentence (if I am mistaken here, please don't
> hesitate to comment). In my translations, I sometimes use "just before..."
> to convey this meaning. It can be expressed by four main constructions: an
> adverb (tɤkʰa), the morphological proximate jɯ- (44), the periphrastic
> proximate and a construction with the verb mda "be the time (144).
>
> (44)  [ɕɤr jɯ-jɤ-azɣɯt] tɕe (...) ɯ-kɤrme nɯ pjɤ-ɕɯ-ɴqoʁ \\
> night \{prox}-\{aor}-arrive \{lnk} { } \{3sg}.\{poss}-hair \{dem}
> \{ifr}-\{caus}-hang
> ‘Just before the night fell, [the witch] hung her hair [on the window of
> the tower].’
> p.1400
>
> (144)  tɕe ɯʑo si tɤ-mda kóʁmɯz nɤ nɯ [mɯ-pjɤ-pe] nɯ ko-tso ri ɲɤ-maqʰu
> ɲɯ-ŋu.
> \{lnk} \{3sg} die:\{fact} \{aor}-be.the.time only.then \{add} \{dem}
> \{neg}-\{ifr}.\{ipfv}-be.good \{dem} \{ifr}-understand \{lnk}
> \{ifr}-be.late \{sens}-be
> ‘Just before dying, he understood that [what he had done] was not good,
> but it was too late.’
>  p.1305
>
> I hope this is what you are looking for, best wishes,
>
> Guillaume
>
> Le lun. 22 avr. 2024 à 04:41, Juergen Bohnemeyer via Lingtyp <
> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> a écrit :
>
>> Dear Joe Pun Ho Lui – If you are looking for adverbial connectives
>> expressing ‘right before’, I got nothing. However, there are languages that
>> have anaphoric temporal remoteness markers. In such languages, immediate
>> past markers convey ‘right before’ when used anaphorically (as opposed to
>> with utterance time). A case in point is Yucatec (Bohnemeyer 2023).
>> (Another language in which anaphoric temporal remoteness markers have been
>> attested is Luganda (Klecha & Bochnak 2015); however, the Luganda system
>> does not include an immediate past marker.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Best – Juergen
>>
>>
>>
>> Bohnemeyer, J. (2023). Elicitation and documentation of tense and aspect. *Language
>> Documentation and Preservation* *Special Publication* 26: 59-98.
>>
>>
>>
>> Klecha, P., & M. R. Bochnak. (2015). Temporal remoteness and relativity.
>> Talk presented at *NELS 46*.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)
>> Professor, Department of Linguistics
>> University at Buffalo
>>
>> Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus
>> Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260
>> Phone: (716) 645 0127
>> Fax: (716) 645 3825
>> Email: jb77 at buffalo.edu
>> Web: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/
>>
>> Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585
>> 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh)
>>
>> There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In
>> (Leonard Cohen)
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of
>> Pun Ho Lui via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> *Date: *Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 21:31
>> *To: *<lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Lingtyp] Encoding "right before" across languages
>>
>> To make things clear, the referred ‘right before’ encodes a temporal
>> relationship, as in* Right before I sleep, I brush my teeth*.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pun Ho Lui <luiph001 at gmail.com> 於 2024年4月22日 上午9:26 寫道：
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> In a number of cross-linguistic works on adverbial subordination (e.g.
>> Olguin Martinez, 2022; Kortmann, 1997; Hetterle, 2015), the logically
>> possible subordinating connective ‘right before’ is not covered. In my
>> experience of reading grammar books, I don’t feel like I have stumbled on
>> any dedicated marker/construction for ‘right before’.
>>
>> To my knowledge, the encoding of ‘right before’ can be, obviously, with
>> an adverbial ‘right'+’before’. Another strategy is ‘as soon as…before’ in
>> Cantonese.
>>
>> I am wondering if you have stumbled on ‘right before’ in other languages.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Warmest,
>> Joe Pun Ho Lui
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Guillaume Jacques
>
> Directeur de recherches
> CNRS (CRLAO) - EPHE- INALCO
> https://scholar.google.fr/citations?user=1XCp2-oAAAAJ&hl=fr
> https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295
> <http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques>
> http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
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