[Lingtyp] Intuitions about inclusive time reference

[Pierluigi CUZZOLIN]

Dear all,

I add myself to the "mild bunch" of native speakers of Italian.
I have no doubt that, according to Östen's words "The idea is that you
should try to use a maximally simple and natural formulation without
excluding any possibility", I would use the imperfect indicative, as Pier
Marco has already pointed out:

Oggi Maria spediva la domanda

She could have already done it, she could be doing it right now or do it by
the end of the day: the imperfect is independent of any reference time.

Best,

Pierluigi




Il giorno ven 16 feb 2024 alle ore 10:48 Paolo Ramat <paoram at unipv.it> ha
scritto:

> A discussion among Italian native speakers:
> *today Mary SUBMIT her grant proposal *
> might be rendered also by
> *a) Oggi M. invierà *(FUT)* la sua domanda per la borsa,*   with "will
> send" the sentence means that M.  hasn't yet sent it, but she will
> certainly do it today
> Pier Marco's c)  interpretation
> c) *Oggi Maria voleva (*Imperfect*) inviare la sua domanda  *can in my
> idiolect be preferably continued by *but she didn't / she failed.*
>
> P.S. *domanda per la borsa *sounds a more exact translation than the
> undefined, vague 'proposta' (unless the context makes it clear that we are
> speaking in an academic cotext)
>
> Best,
> Paolo
>
> Prof. Dr. Paolo Ramat
> Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Socio corrispondente
> 'Academia Europaea'
> 'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary Member
> Università di Pavia (retired)
> Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)
>
> piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100 Pavia
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>
>
> Il giorno gio 15 feb 2024 alle ore 19:13 Christian Lehmann <
> christian.lehmann at uni-erfurt.de> ha scritto:
>
>> Dear Östen,
>>
>> as has become clear from the German answers and apparently some others as
>> well, there is one feature in your contextual description which may not be
>> essential to your concern but which does make a difference for the best
>> choice in these languages. It is this: "Suppose your colleague Mary
>> said...". If she herself is the source of information, I find my own
>> proposal most natural. If this condition is dropped - with the source of
>> information being anything else or being no matter -, then certainly the
>> bare present tense of the verb would suffice.
>>
>> Best, Christian
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>> Am 14.02.2024 um 21:29 schrieb Östen Dahl:
>>
>> I would like to ask for intuitions about the following, in one or more
>> languages that you are acquainted with.
>>
>>
>>
>> Suppose your colleague Mary said on Monday: "Tomorrow I'm going to submit
>> my grant proposal." Now it's about noon on Tuesday, and you have no idea
>> whatsoever of the time of the realization of her intention. Maybe she did
>> it in the morning, maybe she'll wait until midnight, and maybe she's just
>> doing it right now. How would you express the sentence below in your
>> language(s), replacing SUBMIT by a suitable verb form? The idea is that you
>> should try to use a maximally simple and natural formulation without
>> excluding any possibility.
>>
>>
>>
>> Today Mary SUBMIT her grant proposal
>>
>>
>>
>> All comments are welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> - Östen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann
>> Rudolfstr. 4
>> 99092 Erfurt
>> Deutschland
>> Tel.: +49/361/2113417
>> E-Post: christianw_lehmann at arcor.de
>> Web: https://www.christianlehmann.eu
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