[Lingtyp] languages with accusative/ergative alternation

[Michael Daniel]

Martin,

I am not sure how to operationalize the notions of accusative and ergative
in this context. Assuming one uses the standard procedure of comparing the
bivalent pattern to the intransitive one, I guess some unmarked antipassive
constructions would qualify. Thus, in Mehweb Dargwa, East Caucasian, which
lacks regular antipassive derivation, the verb 'carry' has two alternative
valencies:

Agent-Erg carries Theme-Nom (ergative pattern *on the basis of comparison*
with X goes)
Agent-Nom carries Theme-Erg (accusative pattern *on the bases of comparison*
with X goes)

But, *on the basis of comparison* with other transitive verbs, the second
pattern is intransitive, so this would not qualify as accusative in the
usual sense. Yet, I do not clearly see what would be possible other grounds
to identify an ergative / accusative alternation, even in the presence of a
TAM or animacy based split, because in your requirement these variables
should be controlled for.

This is different from the situation of secundative / indirective
alternation, which is possible to identify in a language because they are
identified on alignment-independent grounds (comparison to the encoding of
P). Maybe I am missing something, but I do not see how this is done in the
case of the putative ergative / accusative uncoded alternation.

Misha

вс, 30 июн. 2024 г. в 14:48, Peter Austin via Lingtyp <
lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>:

> Assuming you do not mean TAM-based split ergativity, e.g. Pitta-Pitta.
>
> Best
> Peter
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of
> Martin Haspelmath via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 30, 2024 1:41:54 PM
> *To:* LINGTYP LINGTYP <LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
> *Subject:* [Lingtyp] languages with accusative/ergative alternation
>
> Dear typologists,
>
> Does anyone know of a language that has been described as exhibiting an
> accusative/ergative alternation, i.e. where verbs with meanings like
> 'break' or 'chase' can occur in two constructions such as (1) and (2)
> (which are schematic examples, not English)?
>
> (1) the dog-NOM chased the cat-ACC
>
> (2) the dog-ERG chased the cat-NOM
>
> Such an alternation would be analogous to indirective/secundative
> alternations, as in the schematic examples (3) and (4).
>
> (3) they provided food-ACC us-DAT ('they provided food to us')
>
> (4) they provided us-ACC food-INS ('they provided us with food')
>
> While indirective/secundative alternations have been described
> repeatedly, accusative/ergative alternations are little-known, and seem
> to be quite rare. Is this impression correct?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Martin
>
> --
> Martin Haspelmath
> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
> Deutscher Platz 6
> D-04103 Leipzig
>
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eva.mpg.de%2Flinguistic-and-cultural-evolution%2Fstaff%2Fmartin-haspelmath%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cpa2%40mysoas.onmicrosoft.com%7Cfbd0d937e0024454098608dc99021b32%7C674dd0a1ae6242c7a39f69ee199537a8%7C0%7C0%7C638553481531300351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Fk%2BOgeldXwuKKViruD6L3V%2BAXojpaM2NZAuKlpWpHdk%3D&reserved=0
> <https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
>
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flistserv.linguistlist.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flingtyp&data=05%7C02%7Cpa2%40mysoas.onmicrosoft.com%7Cfbd0d937e0024454098608dc99021b32%7C674dd0a1ae6242c7a39f69ee199537a8%7C0%7C0%7C638553481531308356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=m50OjoB%2B%2Fq0Ib4wQbl6LoSVObo3TNuuYmqsl5rR6e%2Bs%3D&reserved=0
> <https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp>
> _______________________________________________
> Lingtyp mailing list
> Lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org
> https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20240630/faa78522/attachment.htm>