[Lingtyp] Weak scalar quantifiers (some)

[Mira Ariel]

Thank you very much, Christian (Please see below).

I think I have to extend my question to an etymological association of scalar quantifiers (exemplified below) with:

Determiners (indefinite markers and pronouns)

in addition to what I listed in my original query, namely:

  1.  Nominals explicitly denoting part of a whole, e.g., Hebrew xelek ‘part (of)’. (vs. ‘all’)
  2.
a.   Quantifiers denoting a smallish quantity, e.g, Hebrew kcat ‘a little’. (vs. ‘much’)
              *
                b. Quantifiers denoting ‘a number of’, e.g., Hebrew kama, French quelques(uns) (vs. ‘many’)
  3.  Adjectives denoting an unidentified subset, ‘certain’, e.g., Fr certains (de) (vs. 'others’).
  4.  Existential construction ‘exist’, e.g, Chinese Yǒude shíhòu ‘sometimes’, lit. ‘there are times’ (vs. 'others').

Best,
Mira


________________________________
From: Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2025 12:25 PM
To: lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Weak scalar quantifiers (some)


Dear Mira,

first, a request for conceptual clarification. You seem to be contrasting 'some' as a scalar quantifier to 'some' as a determiner. Is the latter the same as an indefinite pronoun?

Both can be pronominal, and my question doesn't care about this distinction:

Determiner: A: Would you like to buy some apples?

            B: Yes, can I have some?

Scalar Quan: A: Would you like all the apples?

            B1: I'd like some of them.

            B2: I'd like some.

The main (almost absolute difference) is stress. Scalar quantifier is overwhelmingly stressed, determiner some isn't. Also, scalar quantifier favors subject (or topic position), while determiner some favors direct object position (data based on Santa Barbara Corpus, cited in a paper recently submitted).


Semantically/pragmatically: scalar quantifier some profiles an upper-bounded quantity ('less than all'). Determiner some is oblivious to this question.




 Such forms as Engl. some, Latin aliquot etc. etc. are commonly used both as determiners and as pronouns s.s. (i.e., representing an NP). And if so, do you have a criterion to distinguish the quantifier from the pronoun? I am asking because they seem to be coded by the same forms and to have the same distribution in several languages.

Now, the standard German forms for the quantifier are einige and etliche. The etymological dictionary of German (https://www.dwds.de/d/wb-etymwb) categorizes both as indefinite pronouns.

Would you use these forms in the counterpart of the scalar quantifier examples above? In both?


Einige is an adjectival derivation in -ig of the base ein 'one'. Interestingly, the derivation allows the word to be plural despite the meaning of its base, which reminds one of the grammaticalization fate of uno/unos in Spanish. Etliche comprises a formative et- of unclear indefinite function and -- to my mind more plausibly than an adjectival derivation in -lich -- a reduced form of the indefinite pronoun welche 'some' (< 'which'). So these German quantifiers are clearly based on indefinite forms.

A better year to everybody,

Christian

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Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann
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