[Lingtyp] Demonstratives to mean deviation from social norm

[Pier Marco Bertinetto]

The Italian proximal demonstrative* (que)sto* (ms) / *(que)sta *(fm) (with
the corresponding plurals) are frequently used with some pragmatically
negative connotation. This does not occur with the distal demonstrative (
*quello*/*quella*), but I am pretty sure it can occur with the
near-the-addressee proximal (*codesto*/*codesta*) for the varieties that
have such a lexeme; not only the Tuscan variety, but also various southern
dialects.
But then, I doubt that proximal demonstratives are generally (if not
universally) liable to develop such negative connotations. In other words,
rather than being an idiosyncrasy of some languages, isn't this a
widespread phenomenon?
I bet somebody has the answer.
Best
Pier Marco


Il giorno gio 26 mar 2026 alle ore 10:39 PONSONNET Maia via Lingtyp <
lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> ha scritto:

> Hi Adam and all,
>
>
> In my variety of oral French, I believe that 'c'teu' [stœ], a
> modification of 'cette', has negative connotations. I'm not sure about the
> 'out of the norm' trait though  - I think it's just derogatory.
>
>
> 'Cette' is feminine, but I think one could even imagine [stœ] used with a
> masculine noun, given the right context (e.g. putain c'teu temps de merde).
> I have no idea whether this has been studied, but I'd be curious to know.
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Maïa
>
>
> Maïa Ponsonnet
>
> Chargée de Recherche HDR @ CNRS Dynamique Du Langage
>
> 14, avenue Berthelot, 69007 Lyon, FRANCE  -- +33 4 72 72 65 46
>
> Adjunct @ University of Western Australia
>
> + + + + +
>
> Membre du Comité d'Ethique de la Recherche, Université de Lyon
>
>
> <https://www.universite-lyon.fr/recherche/comite-d-ethique-de-la-recherche/comite-d-ethique-de-la-recherche-245561.kjsp>
> https://cer.universite-lyon.fr/
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *De :* Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces at listserv.linguistlist.org> de la part de
> Christoph Holz via Lingtyp <lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org>
> *Envoyé :* jeudi 26 mars 2026 10:17
> *À :* Adam James Ross Tallman
> *Cc :* LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
> *Objet :* Re: [Lingtyp] Demonstratives to mean deviation from social norm
>
>
> Hi Adam,
>
>
>
> In Tiang (Oceanic, Papua New Guinea), the proximal visible demonstrative
> *(o)ro* has negative overtones. In its emotional function, it indicates
> surprise or anger of the speaker towards the referent marked with *(o)ro*
> (Holz 2023: 197–200). This can include situations in which someone violates
> socially expected behaviours.
>
>
>
> Holz, Christoph. 2023. Discourse functions of ‘visible’ and ‘nonvisible’
> demonstratives in Tiang (New Ireland) and in a cross-linguistic
> perspective. In Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald, Robert L. Bradshaw, Luca Ciucci &
> Pema Wangdi (eds.), *Celebrating indigenous voice: Legends and narratives
> in languages of the tropics and beyond*, 181–217. Berlin: De Gruyter
> Mouton.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Christoph
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Christoph Holz*
>
> Postdoctoral Research Fellow, University of Naples L'Orientale
>
> Adjunct Research Fellow, Jawun Research Institute, CQU
>
>
>
> Website: https://tianglanguage.wordpress.com/
>
> Orcid: https://orcid.org/0009-0005-7997-4928
>
>
>
> Recent publications:
>
> A comprehensive grammar of Tiang
> <https://acquire.cqu.edu.au/articles/thesis/A_comprehensive_grammar_of_Tiang/25182350?file=44461052>
>
> Documentation of Konomala <https://www.elararchive.org/dk0759>
>
>
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2026 at 15:32, Adam James Ross Tallman via Lingtyp <
> lingtyp at listserv.linguistlist.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> In Chacobo there seems to be a demonstrative that means "do something)
>> that deviates from socially normal expectations". This is a pretty
>> preliminary description, so I'm open to other ideas and
>> reconceptualizations. I call it 'more distal', as an adnominal marker, it
>> doesn't tend to have this meaning.
>>
>>
>>
>> adnominal
>>
>> adverbial
>>
>> verb
>>
>> proximate
>>
>> *naa*
>>
>> *nɨa*
>>
>> *nɨka*
>>
>> distal
>>
>> *toa*
>>
>> *toa*
>>
>> *toka*
>>
>> more distal
>>
>> *oa*
>>
>> *oa~oka*
>>
>> *oka*
>>
>> At base the morpheme seems to mean "out of vision", but not always.
>>
>> I was wondering whether anyone had written about something similar in
>> another language? Let me know.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Adam
>> --
>> Adam J.R. Tallman
>> CNRS, Sedyl
>>
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