6.541 Qs: Talk-shows, Tok Masta, Ibn Fadlan manuscript, Possessives

Wed Apr 12 04:10:29 UTC 1995

----------------------------------------------------------------------
LINGUIST List:  Vol-6-541. Tue 11 Apr 1995. ISSN: 1068-4875. Lines: 162

Subject: 6.541 Qs: Talk-shows, Tok Masta, Ibn Fadlan manuscript, Possessives

Moderators: Anthony Rodrigues Aristar: Texas A&M U. <aristar at tam2000.tamu.edu>
            Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan U. <hdry at emunix.emich.edu>

Asst. Editors: Ron Reck <rreck at emunix.emich.edu>
               Ann Dizdar <dizdar at tam2000.tamu.edu>
               Ljuba Veselinova <lveselin at emunix.emich.edu>
               Annemarie Valdez <avaldez at emunix.emich.edu>

                           REMINDER
[We'd like to remind readers that the responses to queries are usually
best posted to the individual asking the question. That individual is
then  strongly encouraged to post a summary to the list.   This policy was
instituted to help control the huge volume of mail on LINGUIST; so we
would appreciate your cooperating with it whenever it seems appropriate.]

-------------------------Directory-------------------------------------

1)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:49:27 +0200 (CST)
From: Bettina Seifried (Seifried at em.uni-frankfurt.de)
Subject: talk-shows

2)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 15:53 +0100 (MET)
From: JAKOB LADEFOGED (B940119 at ALF.LET.UVA.NL)
Subject: Sources on Tok Masta - Foreigner Talk of New Guinea

3)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:50:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Melia M. E. Brush" (ememb at alpha.pr1.k12.co.us)
Subject: Ibn Fadlan manuscript

4)
Date:          Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:19:47 GMT+7
From: "WIEDRICK. JACK T" (WIED6480 at VARNEY.IDBSU.EDU)
Subject:       this little light of mine...

-------------------------Messages--------------------------------------
1)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:49:27 +0200 (CST)
From: Bettina Seifried (Seifried at em.uni-frankfurt.de)
Subject: talk-shows

Dear subscribers,
I am currently involved in a doctoral research project on television
talk-shows from a pragmatic-conversational analytical perspective. I
would like to define this genre of television talk from its ways of
communicating and the respective activity types on a micro-level of
communication.
My focus is on talk-shows involving everyday people rather than celebrities
(e.g. Oprah Winfrey, Rolonda etc.).
I would be grateful for information on related research projects anywhere
in the world.
Yours,

Bettina Seifried
seifried at em.uni-frankfurt.de

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 15:53 +0100 (MET)
From: JAKOB LADEFOGED (B940119 at ALF.LET.UVA.NL)
Subject: Sources on Tok Masta - Foreigner Talk of New Guinea

I am posting this for a fellow student who is not on the list.
She seeks references of sources of the so-called "Tok Masta", the Foreigner
Talk of Europeans on New Guinea (Probably, I guess, involved in the genesis
of, but still to be kept apart from, Tok Pisin).

She would be especially interested in where to get actual examples of Tok
Masta. So far her main source - not containing examples - is an article by
Peter Muelhaeusler (1981) "Foreigner Talk: Tok Masta in New Guinea" in
'International Journal of Sociology of Language - 28", pp. 93-113.

If anyone out there have information/references, I (she) would be grateful
if you send it to my private e-mail adress - We will then post a summary,
if there seems to be any interest for that.

Thank you in advance.

Jakob Ladefoged
Student of Linguistics, (pt.) Universiteit van Amsterdam,
The Netherlands

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 09:50:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Melia M. E. Brush" (ememb at alpha.pr1.k12.co.us)
Subject: Ibn Fadlan manuscript

Linguists,

        A student in Colorado is looking for the following sources, some
of which may be unpublished, to aid her in research on an Arab manuscript
by Ibn Fadlan.  If you know how these or other helpful sources can be
accessed, please email ememb at alpha.pr1.k12.co.us.  Any English
translation would be suitable.

1)      "An Annotated Bibliography of References to the Manuscript of
        Ibn Fadlan from 1794 to 1970", _Acta Archaeologica_, 1971.
                                E. Berndt and R. H. Berndt

2)      _Byzantia--Metabyzantia: A Journal of Byzantine and Modern
        Greek Studies_, 1947, New York.
                                Trans. by Robert Blake and Richard Frye

3)      "A Histor of Warfare" Amin Razi manuscript, J. H. Emerson papers,
        Archives University Library, Oslo, Norway.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
Date:          Thu, 6 Apr 1995 22:19:47 GMT+7
From: "WIEDRICK. JACK T" (WIED6480 at VARNEY.IDBSU.EDU)
Subject:       this little light of mine...

The other day I was having a conversation in which the topic of
the phenomenon of multiple genitives in postmodifying expressions of
head nominals came up.  (Pretty effective jargon, eh?  Thought I'd
scare away as many as I could to cut down the burden on my mailbox!)
That is, expressions of the type "this house _of mine_", where
possession seems to be redundantly marked.  I realize this is no
unusual thing in terms of language in general, but I'm curious about
its development and history in English and I'm wondering if anyone
has done any work on these.
Consider the following contrastive examples:
    John's house (1 gen)      vs      *a house of John (1 gen)
                              vs       a house of John's (2 gens)
    the king's verdict        vs       a verdict of the king
                              vs       a verdict of the king's
    my friend                 vs      *a friend of me
                              vs       a friend of mine
    your friend               vs      *a friend of you
                              vs      *a friend of your
                              vs       a friend of yours (3 gens!)
    love's labors             vs       labors of love
                              vs      ?labors of love's
    this house's electricity  vs       the electricity of this house
                                      *the electricity of this house's

After reviewing these examples, I get the feeling that whether or not
something can be marked for possession more than once depends
somewhat upon whether or not the possessor is volitional, or can be
perceived as volitional.  Note that pronouns require (at least)
double marking, and so do proper names, except in cases like "the
House of Tudor" (not "*the House of Tudor's").  In cases like "the
verdict of the king('s)" above, it seems that the change in
nuance hinges on whether the possessor is the king himself or whether
it is simply the office of the king (cf. "the house of the governor"
meaning "the house that all governors, and not any specific one, once
elected, will live in for the duration of their term").
I would like to hear of any other thoughts or prior research on this
topic.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Jack Wiedrick
(wied6480 at varney.idbsu.edu)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
LINGUIST List: Vol-6-541.