8.808, Qs: Quebecois Fr,Boletin issues,Expressions

Fri May 30 06:59:53 UTC 1997

LINGUIST List:  Vol-8-808. Fri May 30 1997. ISSN: 1068-4875.

Subject: 8.808, Qs: Quebecois Fr,Boletin issues,Expressions

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1)
Date:  29 May 97 15:27
From:  P.A.Rowlett at mod-lang.salford.ac.uk
Subject:  Negation in Quebecois French

2)
Date:  Thu, 08 May 1997 20:09:10 +0000
From:  Marma Josi Serrano <mjserran at ull.es>
Subject:  Boletin de la real Academia Issues

3)
Date:  Thu, 29 May 1997 12:31:00 +0000
From:  "Carsten Breul" <upp20a at ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Subject:  Query: Expressions like 'Put them away yet?'

-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------

Date:  29 May 97 15:27
From:  P.A.Rowlett at mod-lang.salford.ac.uk
Subject:  Negation in Quebecois French

In Standard French, the direct objects in the following two sentences
are different:

(1)  J'ai mange [de la viande]
(2)  Je n'ai pas mange [de viande]

Is the same contrast a regular feature of Quebecois French?

Also, it is well-known that (apart from a few very specific syntactic
contexts) negative concord with *pas* is ruled out in Standard French,
but possible in Quebecois French.  Now, can anyone tell me whether, in
clauses with negative concord with *pas* in Quebecois French, the
contrast between (1) and (2) is maintained?  So, which of the two
below is typical:

(3)  Je n'ai pas donne [de cadeaux] a personne
(4)  Je n'ai pas donne [des cadeaux] a personne

Any other interesting (i.e., non-standard) facts about the
distribution of these kinds of indefinite direct objects in Quebecois
French would be welcome.

Many thanks.

Dr Paul Rowlett
European Studies Research Institute
University of Salford
Salford M5 4WT
Greater Manchester
United Kingdom

-------------------------------- Message 2 -------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 08 May 1997 20:09:10 +0000
From:  Marma Josi Serrano <mjserran at ull.es>
Subject:  Boletin de la real Academia Issues

I need Boletin de la Real Academia Espanola Indexes of 1992 to
1996 issues. Does anybody know the way I can get them? or
may be anyone can give me those references

I will strongly appreciate if you can help me

Thank you very much in advance

mjserran at ull.es

-------------------------------- Message 3 -------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 29 May 1997 12:31:00 +0000
From:  "Carsten Breul" <upp20a at ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>
Subject:  Query: Expressions like 'Put them away yet?'

Dear all

D. Bolinger (in _Generality, Gradience, and the All-or
None_, p. 17) claims that the expression

  (1) Put them away yet?

is ambiguous between the meanings (1a) and (1b)

  (1a) "Do you put them away yet?" ("Has it become your
       habit?")
  (1b) "Did/Have you put them away yet?"

and that it is indeterminate between the meanings (1c) and
(1d)

  (1c) "Did you put them away yet?"
  (1d) "Have you put them away yet?"

I doubt that (1) may have the meaning (1c), but I feel
unable to judge that (perhaps because I am a non-native
speaker of English). My doubt arises from the impression
that e.g.

  (2) See them yet?
  (3) Get them yet?
  (4) Write him yet?
  (5) Hear it yet?
   etc.

will NOT be understood in the sense of

  (2a) "Did you see them yet?"
  (3a) "Did you get them yet?"
  (4a) "Did you write him yet?"
  (5a) "Did you hear it yet"

but only in the sense of

  (2b) "Do you see them yet?"
  (3b) "Do you get them yet?"
   etc.

Again, however, I am not sure about this. I feel that there
is a rat's tail of further questions involved in this,
starting with: Are expressions like (1)-(5) grammatical at
all, or are they 'only' acceptable as elliptic forms
sanctioned by use.

Can you help me with the problem, by giving me your
judgements as native speakers on the possible meanings of
(1)-(5) or by commenting in any way on the problem or by
directing me to the literature where this issue has been
discussed?

Thanks in anticipation!

Dr. Carsten Breul
Englisches Seminar
Universitaet Bonn
e-mail: c.breul at uni-bonn.de
Regina-Pacis-Weg 5
53113 Bonn
Germany

e-mail: c.breul at uni-bonn.de

e-mail: c.breul at uni-bonn.de

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