LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 06.AUG.1999 (02)

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From: Ian James Parsley [parsley at btinternet.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 05.AUG.1999 (03)

All,

There is an Ulster-Scots verb _goam_ here which would explain quite a lot, but
also leaves a few questions.

Firstly, _goam_ means "to pay attention to", thus somebody who is _goamless_ is
"inattentive". Therefore _goamless_ would appear to be cognate with English
"gormless", but in Ulster-Scots (and Scottish Scots, I believe) the verb form
has also remained, as it has apparently in the north of England.

According to my English dictionary, the Old English form was borrowed from
Norwegian _gaumr_ just as Ron suggests. It would appear, however, that the verb
_gaum_, _gome_ or _goam_ remained only in northern Britain (and was then brought
to the north of Ireland), and was lost in the south, although "gormless"
survives. I would suggest also that the word may well have been borrowed *into*
Gaelic *from* Scots, hence perhaps the confusion on that point. There is a
common but misguided tendency to believe that all words common to Gaelic and
Scots must have derived from Gaelic; words such as _craic_ ("crack", English
"gossip") and _seoch_ (Donegal Irish for "sheuch", English "ditch") are in fact
borrowings from Scots, and "gaum" or "goam" may well be the same.

Hope that helps,
------------------------------------------------------------
Ian James Parsley.
Co Down, Northern Ireland.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1677
"JOY - Jesus, Others, You"

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From: Urban Lindqvist [urban.lindqvist at telia.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 06.AUG.1999 (01)

> From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk]
> Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 05.AUG.1999 (06)
>
> Is it possible that the two forms "gaumless" and "gormless" (Chambers 21st
> Century Dictionary describs them as "variants", and that "gaumless" is
> obsolete) both come from "gaumr" via different paths? "Gaumless" by erosion
> of rhe "r" and "gormless" by metathesis? Both valid ways of avoiding the
> un-English "mr" ending. This seems to me a simpler explanation than
> r-insertion.

On the other hand, which explanation of how the nominative ending -r ended up in

the middle of the word would be simpler than assuming an ordinary case of
hypercorrection?

Urban

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Sandy and Urban wrote:

> > Is it possible that the two forms "gaumless" and "gormless" (Chambers 21st
> > Century Dictionary describs them as "variants", and that "gaumless" is
> > obsolete) both come from "gaumr" via different paths? "Gaumless" by erosion
> > of rhe "r" and "gormless" by metathesis? Both valid ways of avoiding the
> > un-English "mr" ending. This seems to me a simpler explanation than
> > r-insertion.
>
> On the other hand, which explanation of how the nominative ending -r ended up
in
> the middle of the word would be simpler than assuming an ordinary case of
> hypercorrection?

What other Old Scandinavian words have been imported into English and/or Scots
together with the suffix -r?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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