LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 07.AUG.1999 (01)

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From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Etymology

Ron

I'm inclined to agree with you that it is highly plausible that "gormless"
derives from "gaum" via a "pronunciation spelling" (the opposite of a
"spelling pronunciation") and rather improbable that metathesis of "gaumr"
to *"gaurm" is responsible.

Your use of the word "reanalized" inevitably caused me to wonder whether the
US use of "ass" instead of BE "arse" arose in the reverse way. In British RP
"arse" is homophonic with upper-class/military "ass" (once more a simpleton,
fool, etc), pronounced "ahss". Perhaps the Colonials misunderstood the
epithet hurled at them by the Redcoat officers.Or perhaps there is some more
plausible explanation.

John
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Dear John,

You wrote above:

> Your use of the word "reanalized" inevitably caused me to wonder whether the
> US use of "ass" instead of BE "arse" arose in the reverse way.

Though I don't want to shrug off your suggestion it'd take a lot of convincing
to make me change my hitherto held "theory" (a.k.a. assumption) that we are
simply dealing with one of the many replacement words created in American
Puritan-derived culture, in the mode of  (common?) English replacements like
'devil' > 'dickens' and 'penis' > 'peter'.  When I started living in the US I
was constantly amazed about what I then considered excessive prudishness.  I
wasn't even allowed to use the word 'hell' , nor 'ass' in polite company ...
Even the replacement 'heck' was not quite kosher anymore.  So I still assume
that in this case an 'a...s' substitute was used.  Now you can't use the word
'ass' in reference to a 'donkey' either, and so it goes on ...

Oh, and I also learned not to point at things and certainly not at people, hard
though that was at first.  You see, people might think I'm casting a hex on them
...  This is also why American politicians bend their fingers instead of
pointing when talking to the public -- or so I'm told.  No pointing, no
"naughty" words or their long-established substitutes ...  It's been a long road
toward acculturation.

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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From: Lee [glent at troi.csw.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 06.AUG.1999 (02)

>From: Ian James Parsley [parsley at btinternet.com]
>Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 05.AUG.1999 (03)
>
>All,
>
>There is an Ulster-Scots verb _goam_ here which would explain quite a lot, but
>also leaves a few questions.
>
>Firstly, _goam_ means "to pay attention to", thus somebody who is _goamless_ is

>"inattentive". Therefore _goamless_ would appear to be cognate with English
>"gormless", but in Ulster-Scots (and Scottish Scots, I believe) the verb form
>has also remained, as it has apparently in the north of England.
>
Hey Ian,  is goamless kinda like clueless? Probably not since clueless means
one doesn't know what's going on in the world!  I guess I'm more goamless.
At least, when I was growing up, my parents thought I was totally unattentive!

Doogie Lee

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