LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 28.NOV.1999 (03) [E]

Mon Nov 29 05:03:01 UTC 1999

 ========================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 28.NOV.1999 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/~sassisch/rhahn//lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 =========================================================================
 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
 =========================================================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =========================================================================

From: R. F. Hahn
Subject: Language varieties

I wrote under "Low Saxon":

> _Niedersächsisch_ has also been used as one of several names used among
> German
> linguists, and it used to be one of the names (_(neder)sassysch_ etc.) for
> the
> language in what now belongs to
> Germany.  It is not something the people in the Netherlands have made up for
> themselves.  After
> all, it *is* the modern descendant of the Old Saxon language in the Low
> Countries.  _Sassysch_ (and variants) in particular used to be one of the
> predominant names.  Even in the 20th century Low Saxon writers in Germany
still
> referred to _sassisch_ heritage and language (e.g., _Up sassische Eer_ "On
Saxon
> Soil" whose author I forgot).

And Anja Mayfarth replied:

> Once upon a time, in the good, old ages.... ;)

Yes, in *Germany*.  It's use was still widespread through the 19th century when
German scholars referred to the language as "niedersächsische oder sogenannte
niederdeutsche Sprache" ("Low Saxon or so-called Low German language," in the
title of one particular work) and the like.  It has been especially during the
20th century (perhaps beginning in the late 19th century) that the use of
_Niederdeutsch_ became virtually mandatory and politically correct among German
philologists (and foreign Germanistics departments that follow German
directives).  Along with it has been going the thinking mode that, even if it
were a language in its own right, it is and must remain subordinate to German,
sharing with German the same standard language (i.e., the standard variety of a
different language in non-local and "serious" situations).  Also with it has
been going the act of divorcing the language of its dialects that happened to
fall outside national boundaries.  In other words, the motto has been "Even if
it's a separate language, let's keep pretending that it's a German dialect group
anyway."

Stellmacher, Dieter (1990); _Niederdeutsche Sprache: Eine Einführung_; Bern:
Peter Lang.

p. 106-107
---start quote---
Die Abgrenzung der nd. Dialekte ist im Westen und Süden umstritten. Im Westen
liegt die Problematik in dem alten Dialektkontinuum, das die
deutsch-niederländische Staatsgrenze teilt, wodurch verwandte Dialekte von
verschiedenen Standardsprachen überdacht werden mit der Folge, daß sie einmal
als deutsche, das andere Mal als niederländische Dialekte zu bezeichnen sind.
...
Die Abgrenzungsproblematik ist im Westen nicht so sehr dialektgeographischer,
sondern soziolinguistischer Natur. Oft wurde die genetische Verwandtschaft über
die reale Sprachsituation des Nationalsprachengefüges gestellt. Das führte zu
nd. Dialektkarten mit Einschluß niederländischer Dialekte und übersah den
unterschiedlichen Sprachstatus von Nd. und Niederländisch.
---end quote---
---start translation---
Delimitation of the Low German dialects in the west and in the south is a matter
of debate. In the west, the problem lies in the old dialectal continuum that is
split by the German-Netherlands border, whereby related dialects are overlaid by
different standard languages with the result that in the one case they are to be
referred to as German dialects and in the other case as Dutch dialects.
<...>
In the west, the problem of delimitation is less a matter of dialectal geography
than one of sociolinguistics. Oftentimes genetic relationship has been
emphasized to the detriment of the structure of national language. As a result,
Low German dialect maps have been including dialects of the Netherlands and have
been ignoring the different language states of Low German and Dutch.
---end translation---

Stellmacher lists ten competing theories.  Among the ones he mentions as
outmoded is the one to which I and others subscribe:

p. 110
---start quote---
1. Zum Nd. gehören Mundarten aus dem dt. und aus dem niederländischen
Sprachgebiet. Die Grenze des Nd. ist die des Niedersächsischen, m.a.W.
Niederdeutsch ist gleich Niedersächsisch.
---end quote---
---start translation---
1. Low German consists of varieties from German- and Dutch-speaking areas. The
border of Low German is that of Low Saxon; in other words, Low German equals Low
Saxon.
---end translation---

Why it is considered outmoded is not stated specifically but is implicit in
other passages, including the one quoted above (p. 106-107).  However, this was
written in 1990 when few people, including activists, thought it possible for
Low Saxon (Low German) to become officially recognized.  It did become
recognized, in large part if not entirely because an international agreement,
the European Language Charter, made it a matter of necessity, much to the
chagrin (and ridicule) of quite a few.  Things have changed since then, in
Germany since January 1, 1999, and in the Netherlands since a couple of years
earlier, but they have changed only legally.  The language is now officially
recognized, even though most prefer this to be on paper only, business to go on
as usual and with it the pretence of "political border = language border."
However, can you really go on saying that Low Saxon in Germany should have
Standard German as its standard language when we are talking about two
officially recognized separate languages?  Is it not like declaring Catalan in
Spain, Catalan in France and Catalan in Italy (Sardinia) to be separate
languages, and then to go so far as to instituting Standard Spanish,  Standard
French and Standard Italian as their respective standard languages?  It seems
like a ridiculous notion there.  The only difference is that Low Saxon speakers
do not constitute a single, separate ethnic group while Catalans do (at least
the ones in Spain and France).

In my opinion, the pushing for "Niederdeutsch" and all that goes with it in
20th-century German academia is in part a symptom of submission to political,
nationalistic and territorial sentiments in the guise of sociolinguistics rather
than to dialectological considerations.  It is in part based on adherence to the
maxim "one ethnicity, one language" (i.e., all ethnic Germans should speak some
type of "German").  German academics know very well that there is a cross-border
dialect continuum.  Yes, there are respective German and Dutch influences and
different orthographic traditions, but they are not severe and calcified enough
to justify official separation.

So you get a bunch of people that study the language and profess to want to help
preserve it.  Yet they want their cake and eat it too.  The very theoretical
framework and terminology to which they adhere and their neglect of Low Saxon
dialects outside Germany aid fragmentation and thus are detrimental to the
survival chances of the language.  In the light of recent developments, the
"standard language" argument in reference to separate/"foreign" languages is
even more of a embarrassingly odorous albatross around people's necks.  And it's
not as though it's still just a matter of local interest only.  The world is
watching.

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

==================================END======================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
 =========================================================================