LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 16.AUG.2000 (05) [S]

Wed Aug 16 23:17:22 UTC 2000

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From: Andy Eagle [Andy.Eagle at t-online.de]
Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 15.AUG.2000 (06) [E/S]

> From: "Sandy Fleming" <sandy at scotstext.org>
> Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L [S]
>
> > From: Andy Eagle [Andy.Eagle at t-online.de]
> > Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, [E/S]
<sned>
Syne A cam on Lowlands-L
> an wis introduced ti thon document you an John Magnus an the
> ither anes haed pitten up on the Wab. This wis better, but it
> wis faur ower haurd ti follae - ye could lift the rules in the
> document but tryin ti apply the hale lot consistent in practice
> wis juist impossible (ye understaun A'm talkin aboot muckle
> screives o novels an aathing A write in Scots, no juist the wee
> tirliewirlies o writins ye see in Lallans magazine an that).

Thon document wis mair a discussion o sic maiters sae yer richt whan ye sae
its ower complicate tae uise as a kin o cuttie 'rule beuk'

> Syne on the actual airticles in Lowlands-L A startit learnin things
> A could uize for a chynge - first John Magnus explainin how "guid"
> but no "fit" - A could apply that richt awa an ma Scots writin wis
> mair nationally accessible richt awa. Syne this, that an the ither.
> This wey a body's written Scots tichtens an standardizes ower a
> period o time, espeecially if guid instruction's on haun (ay,
> thare's the rub!).
>
> This is the advantage o a "corrective" approach like this - insteed
> o a adult learner haein ti learn a hale system an apply it, he can
> improve his written Scots hooly an fairly ae lesson at a time.

Lairnin an betterin bit bi bit is certies mair eith nor ettlin tae tank in a
lang complicate screid aa in the ae sittin.

> > Monie fowk aye still writes thair ain dialect/pronunciation in a
> > 'pseudo-phonetic' mainer aften walin 'esoteric' spellins juist
> > tae mak whit thay'v wrutten leuk sae faur remuived fae Inglis as thay
> can.
>
> Aweel, the'r nane sae deif as winna hear! The'r naething ye can dae
> aboot sic fowk, tho, A wadna lat them staun in ma road.

A dinna lat thaim staund in ma road aither. A whiles juist uise onie inlats
A'm gien tae pynt oot tae fowk thare's a mair mensefu wey tae write. Whan ye
expone some the sibness o the sindry strynds o Scots they stairt tae see its a
homogenous leid an that thair 'pseudo-phonetic' orthographies isna reallie an
aid tae legibility or unnerstaundin. Persuasion seems tae wirk mair better nor
juist tellin fowk whit's 'richt and wrang'. Gin thare's a guid case pit forrit
maist fowk seems tae gang alang wi't.
O coorse maist fowk dinna ken the ins an oots o ither fowks dialects. Maist
beuks that's tae be haed anent Scots its maistlins pittin ower the tae or
the tither byleid. The bestest beuks is aither ower dear or ower academic
for maist fowk. E'en monie academic beuks juist compears the byleid thay're
dealin wi wi Staunart Inglis further upbiggin the impression that Scots is
juist some kin o orra Inglis. A canna think aff-haund o a modren (in prent)
beuk anent Scots that compears Scots wi itsel. Tho Grant an Main Dixon's
Manual of Modern Scots (1921) compeart Scots wi itsel,unfortunate-like no in
prent onie mair an Sir James Wilson compeart Dialects in some o his beuks an
aa.

 >> As A aften said afore, on ma wabsteid the bitties anent spellin an
> > pronunciation gangs intae the maiter bi wey o the sindrie dialects.
> > Sae gin ye veesit ma wabsteid (www.scots-online.org) juist sneck on
> the
>
> That's a gey guid thing, that - A'd seen thon map afore but A no
> jalouzed the pynt o'd! That's something A think A'll can uize in
> editin texts for ScotsteXt.

That's whit its thare for. An gin ye come ower pynts fae yer ain dialect
that ye think haesna been cuivert or siclike kat us ken.

> > Some o the ensaumples that A can think on whaur mair nor the ae
> > spellin wad
> >
> > be aaricht is in wirds lik:
> > bowk [baVk] (vomit) is some airts this diphthong /aV/ haes been
> vocalised
> > tae /o/ afore /k/ sae boak wad be aaricht anaa. Whit aboot fowk
> (folk)
> > shoud
> > it be spelt folk or foak?
>
> A didna think on that! In ma dialeck it's [fok] an [bok]. What
> aboot "howp"? That's [hop] in ma dialeck.
>
> "Fock" an "bock" haes guid precedents in the likes o Fergusson,
> an gaes alang wi ma ain ideas on hou best ti spell a [k] at the
> end o a word (that A think A liftit fae John, like amaist aathing!).
> Kennin this kin o thing helps me ti convert the ScotsteXt texts til
> a mair consistent orthography athoot strampin on the original writers'
> ettles!

A'm mair faimiliar wi [fok] an aa. Tho wad fowk the day recogneeze spellins
lik 'fock' an 'bock'.
Mibbies 'folk' an 'boak' wad be mair better for legibility.

> A think we'r in braid agreement here. Anither set o spellins A
> think wad be better wi mair nor ae spellin is the likes o
> "laif/loaf", "roar/rair" &c. Some, the likes o "fuit" for "fit"
> is plain wrang an should be corrected aerly, ithers, the likes
> o "mair" for "muir" isna wrang but is needlessly localised, an
> sae needs correctin an aa, but ithers, the likes o fowk/fock an
> loaf/laif is a expression o the writer's dialeck athoot onything
> ti say that ane's better nor the ither, and juist needs ti be pyntit
> oot sae's the writer can make a informed chyce (see me, writin "fowk"
> aa thae years what A'd raithered a been writin "fock"!).

A wad accept laif/loaf, roar/rair an aa. Again the spellins loaf an roar is
kent fae the Inglis.
That's hou A think its best uisin a spellin seestem that's braidly
compatible wi Inglis. Thon wey whan fowk uises sindrie variants they aye
still mell intae the (legible) wrutten text athoot steekin oot lik thae
weel-kent provribial sair thoums.

Andy

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