LL-L: "Language planning" LOWLANDS-L, 07.OCT.2000 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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  L O W L A N D S - L * 07.OCT.2000 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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  A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
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From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Help needed

Nigel raised some very interesting points. But were we ever told why the
question was being raised? Given that hotels are frequented by travellers
and widely staffed by people who do not speak/read the majority language of

the country in which they work this is surely an ideal case for a
standardised symbol.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: FryskeRie Friesenrat [fryskerie at altavista.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Help needed" LOWLANDS-L, 06.OCT.2000

Nigel wrote:

> It strikes me that this question is quite far-reaching in its
implications.

This reminds me of a discussion in the magazine Frisia Nova, years ago.
Contributions to this paper were in Frisian (all varieties) and in Low
Saxon. At some time one of the editors switched from Low Saxon to High
German in his publications. His argument was that, when trying to write
formal-style Low Saxon, he was automatically led to produce literally
translated High German (say "Patentplatt"), since this register was
non-existent in Low Saxon.

For quite some time I strongly disagreed, but lately I'm starting to
realize there is some truth in this editor's argument. In fact, I've been
wondering about some of my capable bilingual pupils' lack of ability to
translate formal Dutch into Frisian. When asking them why they couldn't,
their answer was that they just didn't know how to say this or that in
Frisian. Other pupils didn't seem to bother and used conversions from
formal Dutch. We tend to consider the latter group more capable, since many
regular users of formal Frisian use the same technique, but the first group
is actually much better at keeping both systems apart, and they are just
suffering from sufficient input in the registers concerned.

In fact, the West(erlauwer) Frisian system is rich enough to be used quite
normally in many domains. The problem is that many speakers are not exposed
in a sufficient extent to all those domains. When they need to write a text
or produce a speech in Frisian, they tend to switch to the corresponding
Dutch register and start to convert. The provincial government, but also
the Frisian movement are known for spreading this kind of Frisian. With the
best intentions, of course!

It is definetely possible to produce idiomatically sound Frisian texts in
the more formal domains. The Public Proscecutor's Office has recently
produced some very natural, formal publications. Municipalities with
Frisian traffic signs don't seem to have a problem either. It seems to
require some training to stay in the right "Frisian" mode when producing
more formal texts.

I've learned some tricks to achieve this. One is to imagine being my
grandfather or some elderly person without much knowledge of formal
registers and trying to imagine how he would say what I'm trying to
express.

Another way, which is more fit for longer and for written texts, is to use
texts in German or English as a source, rather than Dutch ones, which make
interference less likely.

The case of Frisian differs from the situation re Low Saxon, as its use in
formal and written domains has got a longer history. The language has
undergone a process of elaboration over the last hundred years or so and
the problem is insufficient schooling, rather than full absence of certain
domains, which I can imagine is the case in Low Saxon.

Henk Wolf

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