LL-L: "Greetings" LOWLANDS-L, 07.SEP.2000 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 07.SEP.2000 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: david strommen [si00924 at navix.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Greetings" LOWLANDS-L, 06.SEP.2000 (08) [E]

Moin Ron,
Her whole family uses "Low Saxon" every day, as do many in my congregation.
With all of our languages that ventured with their immigrant speakers, we have
had a tendency to mix a lot of American and American thinking in it.  When we
came through Ellis Island and they said you were German, Dutch, Irish, Swedish
(in some cases even if you came from Norway before the dissolution of the
union) you figured "well, that's what I am" and to avoid confusion that's what
you told others about yourself.  As to the people of my congregation they seem
to quite comfortable speaking "Low Saxon" among themselves, but when speaking
to me they know I speak some High German, therefore, for me to understand, the
mindset is probably to use a blended language unless I press them on a
specific
word in "Low Saxon.    Thanks for the reply. David

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From: Brian K. Frerichs [frerichs at midwest.net]
Subject:  LL-L: "Greetings" LOWLANDS-L, 06.SEP.2000 (08) [E]

Moin Ron, or Hello Ron, as you might prefer,
>
>From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at u.washington.edu]
>Subject: Greetings
>
>Moin, David!
>
>> I said Grööt dien Süster or Swester to her but got a blank
>> stare.  She said they never used the term as she remembered only God Dag.
>
>I'm beginning to wonder about her language proficiency considering that she
>didn't even *understand* you.  Or was she just taken aback by your code
>switching?

Before questioning her language proficiency, I would consider the
possibility that the term just isn't used by East Frisian Americans.
Perhaps the term was considered too formal and was "lost" during the last
100+ years?   The blank stare may have resulted from her wondering whether
or not her pastor was commenting on her sisters' size.  I've had the same
discussion with my grandmother, and she had also never used the term.

Just a thought.
Brian Frerichs

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Greetings

I think you are making a good point, Brian.  It is obvious that most of us
know too little about the varieties of Low Saxon (Low German) that have been
used in the American Midwest for a good hundred years.  It is most certainly a
subject worth studying.  I am sure that these varieties have preserved some
things that were lost in the European varieties, and they may have lost some
things as well, not to mention the English influences they no doubt have been
subjected to.  At least that is what I have gleaned from reading LS material
published in the States.  The dialects of Northern Germany have been
undergoing variously strong processes of Germanization (such as direct
translation from German, including German calques) and those of the
Netherlands have been influenced by Dutch, and these influences seem to have
been strongest most recently (as a symptom of language decline perhaps).  So,
_Gröten_ (or _Groten_) 'greeting(s)', 'regards', may well be unknown to
speakers in the States, though I do believe that _Gröten_ (both singular and
plural, not *_Grööt_ for the singular) is older than 100 years, as is
_Gröötnis_ used in farwestern dialects.  'To greet', 'to salute' is often
rendered as _Dag seggen_ ("to say '(good) day'"), and perhaps that is what
people in David's congregation use (or *_Moin seggen_ perhaps?).

However, I would not totally discount the surprise theory.  If someone who is
not known or expected to know a certain language suddenly says something in
that language, you often get the "Huh?!" reaction.  People often don't seem to
understand because they think they misheard what has been said, assuming it
was supposed to be in another, expected language (in David's case probably
German).  You get that a lot as a Westerner addressing Chinese and Japanese
people in their languages (unless you are in rural China).  They are not
prepared for that and "don't understand," but once they tune in to the fact
that you can indeed speak their languages they suddenly understand everything
you say.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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