LL-L: "Kinship" LOWLANDS-L, 05.APR.2001 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

=======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 05.APR.2001 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

From: Marco Evenhuis [evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Kinship" LOWLANDS-L, 05.APR.2001 (06) [E]

Ron wrote:

> In Low Saxon (Low German) of Northern Germany, too, _us_ [?Us] or _uns_
> [?U.ns] 'our' is often used before the name of one's own family member
when
> talking about a member of one's own family to someone inside or outside
the
> family.

Same here in Zeeland, in all the ways Ron described: ons/onzen Jan gae mee
de dochter van Jan van Keulen; die van ons (our daughter) ei nog nie vee
omkiek; ons vaoder gae ge-werke... Furthermore, in some situations 'ons' is
used in stead of 'our family: ons è daè nooit an meegedae; ons è aoltied ao
verergeweert mee die van Louwerse; ons trouwe nie mee Bastiaanses.
I always felt this use of 'ons' as part of Zelandic, since I haven't heard
anyone using it in Dutch, I've only seen it in written form. I think that in
Dutch these ways of using 'ons' are at least old-fashioned.

regards,

Marco

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Kinship

Marco wrote:

> Same here in Zeeland, in all the ways Ron described

> I always felt this use of 'ons' as part of Zelandic, since I haven't
> heard
> anyone using it in Dutch, I've only seen it in written form. I
> think that in
> Dutch these ways of using 'ons' are at least old-fashioned.

I suspect that originally this was quite widespread (even globally) but
disappeared with increasing social isolation and alienation in urban speech
communities, which then came to be associated with being "progressive" and
"sophisticated" and thus to be emulated.

However, if for argument's sake we assumed that the phenomenon occurs only
sporadically, we ought not dismiss the possibility of a link between your and
our speech communities.  I have been told that there was significant Saxon
immigration to coastal regions of what are now the Southern Netherlands and
Northern Belgium.*  Also, there appear to be several songs and tales that
exists in both Flemish and Low Saxon versions (including "Reynard de vos" and
"Till Ulenspeghel") and are frequently claimed to be original on both sides.
What it really means is that which we tend to consider separate these days
used to be on a continuum or in a contact situation in former times.

* I do not know if there is a Saxon past in Críostóir's area.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================