LL-L: "Place names" LOWLANDS-L, 05.APR.2001 (08) [E]

Fri Apr 6 00:07:01 UTC 2001

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L O W L A N D S - L * 05.APR.2001 (08) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
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From: "Ian James Parsley" <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L: "Place names" LOWLANDS-L, 04.APR.2001 (01) [E]

Sandy asked:

> Any other examples of this sort of "Glen-" dropping?

It's certainly not unusual to drop prefixes on place names in Scots in
Ireland either. 'Lisnagunogue' is recorded by Fenton (1994) as
'Guniog', 'Rasharkin' as 'Sharkin' (interestingly NOT 'Shairkin'), and
others apply too. However, I would doubt this is a specifically Ulster
Scots thing to do - 'Lisnagarvey' is often 'Garvey' is speech, and
right in SW Ulster 'Lisnaskea' is known as 'The Skay' and 'Coalisland'
as 'The Island'.

You are probably right in your assessment that the 'Glen-' is a
deliberate insertion for the names you mention.

ATB,
Ian
-----------------
Ian James Parsley

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From: "Ian James Parsley" <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L: "Place names" LOWLANDS-L, 05.APR.2001 (04) [E]

Criostoir

> Indeed. This is striking as one discusses the language
> with people in the Six Counties and Ireland as a
> whole. Sadly, there is a misconception that "Ulster
> Scot" is merely a synonym for a Unionist inhabitant of
> the Six Counties, with the qualifier perhaps that she
> or he may have a Scottish surname and so be descended
> from the Scots of the 1610 Plantation of Ulster (in
> which - for the benefits of subscribers unfamiliar
> with Irish history - the region was colonised by the
> British State, with large numbers of Scots, English,
> Welsh and even some Cornish given tracts of land).
> This is of course linguistic error. I would define an
> "Ulster Scot" to be anyone who speaks the Ulster Scots
> language in the nine counties of Ulster, irrespective
> of their religion, their background, and their
> political persuasion. They may hold other identies
> along with this - they may be Irish-speakers, too, or
> they may consider themselves British, Irish, or
> whatever.

Well this is a crucial point. As you say, there is a perception that
'Ulster Scot' is almost synonymous with 'Ulster British', which of
course is complete nonsense. There is also a growing perception, which
the Ulster-Scots Agency has to be careful about, that somehow 'Irish'
and 'Ulster Scots' culture are two separate, mutually exclusive
entities. They are, in fact, fundamentally intertwined. Take the
Gaelic surname 'McIntyre' which is a typical Lowlands Scots/Ulster
Scots surname, as is indicated by the diphthongization (otherwise it
would be 'McInteer'). This surname alone indicates the obvious and
undeniable link between Scots and Gaelic on both sides of the North
Channel.

Of course, the political parties usually talk a good fight, usually
coming together to support motions about all minority languages.
However, it is actions rather than words. All too often politicians
use languages as political weapons, even if they don't directly mean
to.
> Most nationalists and
> republicans, however, have great difficulty getting to
> grips with what Ulster-Scots is. Is it a dialect of
> English? Is it a separate language? Do we speak it?
> Are we speaking it now? Is it some form of Gaelic? Did
> we speak it once?

Well, if anything the greatest opposition to Ulster Scots comes from
middle class Unionists. The few of them who think about it at all are
mainly of the view that everybody should speak English, not just here
but everywhere! This is because general linguistic awareness and
knowledge in the UK and Ireland is very low in the first place (hence
myths such as 'he doesn't use grammar' or 'the standard of English is
declining').

What you say with reference to Nationalists would apply equally to
many Unionists. Even those with authority are yet to define Ulster
Scots' relationship to Scottish Scots. This is a fundamental problem.
My own view is that it is almost indisputable that Ulster Scots is a
variant of Scots, with a common literary heritage (clearly
distinguishable from that of English, even including its own verse
forms) and without a clearly distinguishable linguistic boundary from
south of Ballymena to north of Aberdeen. On my journeys through
Scotland, listening to the same music, reading the same poetry, noting
the same vocabulary (Scots place names are familiar, I can visit a
'soutar's' cottage in Ayrshire, I hear 'bring a tear tae a gless ee'
on the radio) the notion that Ulster Scots is a distinct language from
Scottish Scots becomes patently absurd. I know at least one member of
this list who has found the reverse true on a visit here. However,
there are people in Ireland, of a Unionist persuasion, who seem to
intertwine Ulster Scots with some form of reclaiming or explaining
Ulster Britishness (the opposite, presumably, of that they would view
as 'Gaelic Irishness') - it is somewhat of a paradox that they should
seek to differentiate themselves from Scots in order to illustrate
their 'Unionist' identity!

For further answers to the above questions, I refer list members again
to the introduction to Ulster Scots on my website:

www.geocities.com/parsleyij/ullans.html

Best,
Ian.
------------------
Ian James Parsley

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