LL-L: "Pronouns" LOWLANDS-L, 25.JUN.2001 (01) [E/S]

Mon Jun 25 21:57:36 UTC 2001

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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Pronouns"

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Pronouns
>
> Modern English:
>        singular  plural
> nom.:  you       you
> obj.:  you       you

It's worth remembering that in large areas of England such
as the West Country, Yorkshire and Lancashire, the thou
/thee/thy forms are still used, at least amongst older
speakers, though with some variations in pronunciation.
They are frequently heard in "Last of the Summer Wine",
a BBC sitcom about the elderly population of a small
Yorkshire town. Here, "thy" and "thou" are both pronounced
"tha" (although one actor says "thee" for all three forms
of the pronoun, I think, perhaps partly by analogy with the
Northern English "me" for "my"), and they seem to follow the
same sort of conjugation as in Scots, ie "Tha's" rather than
"Thou art", but by contrast I've heard the Lancashire
expression, "Art wet shod?" ("Are your feet wet?").

Wessexian (English West Country dialect) is always the
difficult one for pronouns, as in this example form
Norman Rogers' "West Country Dialect" (Moonraker Press,
1979, SBN 239.00182.6):

"Casn't see as well as thee could, cast?"
=(Thou) canst not see as well as thou could, canst (thou)?"

In Shetlandic these pronouns are alive and well as du/dee/dy,
and follow the Scots conjugation too, in traditional Scots
this being, eg "thoo kens" for the subjective forms and
"thee" in the predicate and "thy" for the possessive.

In modern mainland Scots the only remnant of these forms I
know of is the form "tu" for "thou" still occasionally
heard in our area (by me, for instance!), but strictly for
addressing pets and small children (it's conjugated the
same way as the older "thoo"). This form is used copiously
in the following story which I have from "A Memoir of Isobel
Burns" by her grandson, Robert Burns Begg (Isobel Begg, née
Burns, was Robert Burns's youngest sister: she spent much of
her life in the village I grew up in in Scotland).

The question of whether this story was actually written by
Burns himself often crops up. Here's what Robert Burns Begg
says about it: "This fable she [Mrs Begg] first learned by
hearing it recited by the poet to his younger brothers and
sisters at the fireside of Lochlea during the long winter
evenings, and her firm conviction was that it was composed
by Burns for the amusement of herself and the other juvenile
members of her father’s household.  As such the little story
is here given at full length, as it discloses Burns’s genius
in a novel but not the less deeply interesting and
fascinating aspect.  The story has already appeared in
_Chambers’s Nursery Rhymes of Scotland_, as written down by
the genial and talented author from Mrs. Begg’s recital.
It was also published many years ago as a Christmas story
for children, with a series of excellent illustrations by
"J. B.," a then youthful artist, son of Mrs. Hugh Blackburn;
As Burns’s authorship has never been disputed, and no trace
of the story has been found outside the Burns family circle,
it may now be safely assumed that Mrs. Begg was correct in
her conviction.  Indeed, the very phraseology of the story
seems of itself to indicate its authorship."

Anyway, note the use of "Where is" rather than "Where art" -
the former being correct Scots usage. But there is one
exception - which might be correct Scots or just a typo
(I've marked it "[sic]" below)

MARRIAGE OF ROBIN REDBREAST AND JENNY WREN.

There was an auld gray Poussie Baudrons, and she gaed awa’
down by a water side, and there she saw a wee Robin Redbreast
happin’ on a brier; and Poussie Baudrons says, "Where’s tu
gaun, wee Robin?"  And wee Robin says, "I’m gaun awa’ to the
king to sing him a sang this guid Yule morning."  And Poussie
Baudrons says, "Come here, wee Robin, and I’ll let you see a
bonny white ring round my neck."  But wee Robin says, "Na, na!
gray Poussie Baudrons; na, na!  Ye worry’t the wee mousie, but
ye’se no worry me."  So wee Robin flew awa’ till he came to a
fail fauld-dike, and there he saw a gray greedy gled sitting.
And the gray greedy gled says, "Where’s tu gaun, wee Robin?"
And wee Robin says, "I’m gaun awa’ to the king to sing him a
sang this guid Yule morning."  And gray greedy gled says,
"Come here, wee Robin, and I’ll let ye see a bonny feather
in my wing."  But wee Robin says, "Na, na! gray greedy gled;
na, na!  Ye pookit a’ the wee lintie, but ye’se no pook me."
So wee Robin flew awa’ till he came to the cleuch o’ a craig,
and there he saw slee Tod Lowrie sitting.  And slee Tod Lowrie
says, "Where’s tu gaun, wee Robin?"  And wee Robin says, "I’m
gaun awa’ to the king to sing him a sang this guid Yule
morning."  And slee Tod Lowrie says, "Come here, wee Robin,
and I’ll let ye see a bonny spot on the tap o’ my tail."  But
wee Robin says, "Na, na! slee Tod Lowrie; na, na!  Ye worry’t
the wee lammie, but ye’se no worry me."  So wee Robin flew
awa’ till he came to a bonny burnside, and there he saw a
wee callant sitting.  And the wee callant says, "Where [sic]
tu gaun, wee Robin?"  And wee Robin says, "I’m gaun awa’ to
the king to sing him a sang this guid Yule morning."  And
the wee callant says, "Come here, wee Robin, and I’ll gie
ye a wheen grand moolins out o’ my pooch."  But wee Robin
says, "Na, na! wee callant; na, na!  Ye speldert the
gowdspink, but ye’se no spelder me."  So wee Robin flew
awa’ till he came to the king, and there he sat on a
winnock sole and sang the king a bonny sang.  And the
king says to the queen, "What’ll we gie to wee Robin for
singing us this bonny sang?"  And the queen says to the
king, "I think we’ll gie him the wee wran to be his wife."
So wee Robin and the wee wran were married, and the king
and the queen and a’ the court danced at the waddin’; syne
he flew awa’ hame to his ain water side and happit on a brier.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pronouns

Thanks for the interesting explanation and story, Sandy.

One also ought to mention that the old English 2nd person singular pronoun
"survives" or until recently "survived" in some American varieties as well,
and I hope that some of our subscribers can comment on this.  (Does it also
apply to Appalachian?)  I am writing "survive" within quotation marks
because I am not sure if it is a case of true survival, though I suspect it
may be in a few dialects.  My wife's paternal grandmother, who was born and
raised in rural Alabama and was heavily involved in African American
Baptist traditions (the "the Bible-thumping, stomping in the aisle,
yelling, screaming and falling down" type), would address people with
"thee" (yes, consistently, even where "thou" ought to be used).  I
understand that the ministers would say "thee" also, and I wonder if they
just wanted to sound "biblical."  I vaguely remember that in an American TV
series -- "Ann of Green Gables"? -- the woman played by Tyne Daly (sp?)
addresses everyone with "thee" also.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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