LL-L: "Pronouns" LOWLANDS-L, 26.JUN.2001 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 26.JUN.2001 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: frank verhoft <frank_verhoft at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pronouns

Beste Richard, beste Laaglanders,

Richard:
"The subject of personal pronouns is a bit like the
Rhine/Meuse delta: complicated, interconnected and
constantly shifting!"

Frank:
May I complicate things even a bit more, at least for
the development of Standard Dutch?

Both sentences in SD can be used:
1. "U bent ..."
2. U is ..."

In which _u_ in sentence (1) takes a verb in the
second person singular, and _u_ (2) takes a third
person singular (more or less as in Continental
Portuguese "Você está..." or rather "O senhor/A
senhora está..."). In very formal or old fashioned
writing this _u_ + 3rd S is sometimes still written
with a capital.

If I understood things well, the _u_ (+ 2nd PS)
developed from WGm. _eu_, the same word that gave rise
to _ju_ (coastal Dutch).
_u_ (+ 3rd PS) from _UE_, from _Uwé_, from _Uwe
Edelheid_ (comp. Pt. _você_, from  _Vossa Mercê_) got
used in 16th century Holland and spread out.

Due to the changes and the introduction of _jij_ etc.,
as already described in Richard's and previous mails,
latter _u_ got conected with the 2nd person singular
by means of a "construction ad sensum", hence the
possible alternation "u bent/u is". I doubt if any
real distinction can be made between the two
possibilities (_U is_ being the more formal one??),
the difference is at least not as outspoken as with
Continental Portuguese _você_/_O senhor_, _a senhora_.

Old Low Franconian:
Nominative singular: thu
Nominative plural: ge
Accusative singular: thi
Accusative plural: iu

"Middle Dutch":
Nominative singular: du - ghi
Nominative plural: ghi(liede)
Accusative singular: di - u/ju
Accusative plural: u/ju(liede)

16th C Hollands:
Nominative singular: jij/gij
Nominative plural: jelui
Accusative singular: jou/u
Accusative plural: jullie

17th C:
Nominative singular: jij/gij-UE
Nominative plural: jelui/jullie
Accusative singular: jou/u-UE
Accusative plural: jelui, jullie

Richard:
"I would be interested to know more about the Flemish
case and also other confusions of polite and familiar
pronouns where dialect speakers are learning the
standard language."

Frank:
I realise this has more value as an anecdote rather
than as a scientific factum, but if one wants to
imitate a speaker from Antwerp, one *only* has to
start a sentence with _u_, and shift immediately to
_gai_ (and end with _schatje_. Oh well, ignore this
last one, just kidding :)).
Personally I make the shift _u_/_uw_, _gij_/_a_/_ave_
and _jij_/_jouw_ in a conversation/sentence too,
especially because I still feel "uncomfortable" with
"Hollandse" _jij_/_jouw_.

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Frank Verhoft

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