LL-L "Grammar" 2002.04.11 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 11.APR.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Pepijn Hendriks" <pepijnh at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2002.04.11 (01) [E]

R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> wrote:

> One thing I have noticed about certain English dialects of England (for
> instance those of Yorkshire) is that "our" must (?) precede the name of
> one's relative when one talks about him or her; e.g., "Have you seen our
> Jane?", "That's typical of our Billy," or "Our Vera is in hospital."
>
> How extensively does this apply, with regard to both usage and dialectal
> spread?  Is it used in Scots as well?  What about other Lowlands
> languages?

In the dialect of Dutch Brabantish spoken in the area where I grew up
(just west of Breda) it is used as well:

My father could ask my mother: _Heeft jullie Pieter al gebeld?_ 'Has
your brother Pieter phoned yet?'. A possible reply could then be: _Nee,
ons Roos heeft gebeld._ 'My sister Roos phoned me instead'.

Interestingly enough, this usage is restricted to one's own kin. In-laws
don't join in the fun. So if my father asked: _Komt jullie Pieter nog?_
'Is your brother Pieter still coming?', my mother could say: _Nee, die
komt niet, maar Janneke komt wel._ 'No, he's not coming, but [my sister-
in-law] Janneke *is* coming'.

Also, children refer to their parents as _ons pa_ and _ons ma_ when
talking to other people. More to the east (Eastern Brabant), you can
hear _ons pap_ and _ons mam_ instead.

I don't know how strong this usage is holding. My parents will use the
_ons_ and _jullie_ when referring to eachother's siblings, although my
sister and I would never refer to my parents as _ons pa_ and _ons ma_. I
would also never refer to my sister as _ons Merel_. Other people my age
(24) still do, however, for referring to their parents as well as to
their siblings.

(This might have to do with the fact that we were brought up with
Standard Dutch. In our family, my parents (and as a result my sister and
I) would not use the most salient traits of the regional dialect,
although their and our speech retained certain regional elements.)

I think it might even work with relatives in the second degree. My aunt
could refer to me as "Ons Pepijn van ons Wout" 'the son Pepijn of my
brother Wout'.

I don't have access to past editions of the magazine _Onze Taal_ at the
moment, but there was an article a while back on the way people refer to
their own relatives and those of their spouse. In the above case you
think from your own position, but sometimes you reason from the spouse's
point of view: if you're talking to your mother-in-law on the phone and
she wants to talk to your spouse, telling him or her: "Honey, my mother-
in-law would like to speak to you!", would cause either confusion or
amusement.

-Pepijn

--
 pepijnh at bigfoot.com -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~pepijnh -- ICQ - 6033220

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