LL-L "Etymology" 2002.04.26 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 26.APR.2002 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Aviad Stier" <aviad2001 at hotmail.com>
Subject: etymology

Hi Everyone!
The German word 'Geck' or 'Jeck' got into Hebrew in the thirties as
"yeke",
which was a sometimes-derogatory term for a German-Jewish immigrant.
Nowadays it's also commonly used as a mildly-derogatory term for someone
who's fastidious, punctual, humorless etc., characteristics which are
stereotypical to Germans and are generally sneered at by Israelis.
Aviad Stier
Brussels

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From: Ole Stig Andersen <osa at olestig.dk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.04.25 (01) [E/LS]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language varieties

> Ole:
>> 2) preparedness for shifts in meaning. e. g the word "queen" which
>> means "female king" in English, "girl" in Scots ( I hope!) and "woman"
>> in Scandinavian.
>
> Not to forget 'young, nubile cow' in Low Saxon (Low German)! :)

I had to look up "nubile". (Can't be a Germanic word, then!). My
dictionary
says: "giftefaerdig, mandbar". (According to my opposite-direction
dictionary: "marriageable". Directly translated "marriage-ready,
man-able").
In Danish these words are distinctly high on the animacy ladder, only
applicable to young women, certainly not to young animals! :)

Then it occurred to me that "queen" might be the same as the Danish word
"kvie", which is indeed a "young, bull-ready cow"

I am the happy owner of Elof Hellquist's "Svensk Etymologisk Ordbok"
(1922)
which is rather more informative than any Danish etymological dictionary
I
know of, and he is not in doubt that "kviga" is a version of "cow", and
mentions nothing of any connection to "kvinna" ("queen").

So:
What IS the exact Low Saxon word for such a manready cow? And in
English?

And:
Does there exist a cross-Germanic etymological dictionary?

Regards,
Ole Stig Andersen
http://www.olestig.dk

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Aviad:

> The German word 'Geck' or 'Jeck' got into Hebrew in the thirties as
> "yeke", which was a sometimes-derogatory term for a German-Jewish
> immigrant.

Strangely, I had just been thinking of this before I opened my mailpox
and found your submission.  I know the use of this well from my time in
Israel.  Usually it's said behind someone's back, but occasionally it is
used in a joking or non-hostile admonishing way (e.g., "Don't be such a
_yeke_!")

Actually, I am wondering if _yeke_ is a loan from Eastern Yiddish rather
than from German.  It *is* used in Eastern Yiddish, and I have a feeling
that originally it just meant 'German Jew,' which is also the only
meaning Weinreich gives in his dictionary.  I am just not sure how old
this word is in Yiddish.  It could well be that it started off as a loan
from Western Yiddish, now practically extinct (though rumor has it there
are still some old folks in the Alsace who know it).  Western Yiddish
was primarily used along the eastern and western banks of the Rhine and
was based on "German" dialects of that area, thus assumedly Central and
Middle Franconian varieties, perhaps also Northern Alemannic ones,
probably including Limburgish and Alsatian.  We also know that speakers
of Eastern Yiddish and Western Yiddish had frequent contacts.  Could it
not be that _yeke_ (plural _yekes_) was chosen because it was used in
Western Yiddish a lot, where Easterners would use _nar_ (which,
interestingly, is one of the few Germanic words that has a Hebrew plural
form: _naronim_, cf. German _Narr_ > _Narren_)?

Ole:

> So:
> What IS the exact Low Saxon word for such a manready cow?

The pronunciations are [kve:n], [kvE:n], [kve.En], etc., in Germany
spelled _Queen_, _Quään_, _Kween_ or _Kwään_.

Of course, my use of "nubile" within this context *was* meant to be
facetious, or pretend-delicate, for "bull-ready."  ;)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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