LL-L "Language contacts" (was "Etymology") 2002.04.26 (09) [E/German]

Fri Apr 26 22:02:09 UTC 2002

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From: "Aviad Stier" <aviad2001 at hotmail.com>
Subject: etymology

Ron/Reinhard:
Actually, I am wondering if _yeke_ is a loan from Eastern Yiddish rather
than from German.  It *is* used in Eastern Yiddish, and I have a feeling
that originally it just meant 'German Jew,' which is also the only
meaning Weinreich gives in his dictionary.

Oh, yes. I'm pretty sure it got into Hebrew from Eastern Yiddish, and
should
have been more specific about that. The origins of the word are quite
mysterious, though, and I heard several theories, mostly implausible.
The
Geck/Jeck/Jekke theory is the only one that sounds likely, especially if
you
consider that Yiddish probably started in central "Ashkenaz" - that is,
around the Rhine river. Speaking of which, i was positively surprised to
hear about that "rumour" of Western Yiddish still spoken in Alsace. Do
you
know anything more about that? Can you refer me to any sources on the
web?

"Could it not be that _yeke_ (plural _yekes_) was chosen because it was
used in Western Yiddish a lot, where Easterners would use _nar_ (which,
interestingly, is one of the few Germanic words that has a Hebrew plural
form: _naronim_, cf. German _Narr_ > _Narren_)?"

Could very well be, I think, but it's just as possible that it got into
Eastern Yiddish at an early stage, alongside with "nar", and was
gradually
dissimilated into the derogatory meaning it has today.
Aviad Stier

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Aviad:

> Could very well be, I think, but it's just as possible that it got into
> Eastern Yiddish at an early stage, alongside with "nar", and was
> gradually  dissimilated into the derogatory meaning it has today.

Yes, quite likely also, considering that Old Yiddish was most definitely
based on Old-to-Middle-Rhenish varieties, i.e., that *both* Western and
Eastern Yiddish were originally based on such Rhenish varieties.  But I
like my "hypothesis" better ... ;)  So there!  Well, it would be
interesting to find out just how old the g > j shift before front vowels
is in Limburgish and other Middle-to-Lower-Rhenish varieties, i.e.,
whether or not they precede the migration waves to Central and Eastern
Europe and the genesis of Eastern Yiddish there.  My strong hunch is
that it did not.  Why?  As far as I know, there is no (consistent) g > j
shift before front vowels in Eastern Yiddish (thus, I would expect
*_gek_ and *_gekl_, as in _gebn_ 'to give' and _gezeyn_ 'seen')!

> Speaking of which, i was positively surprised to
> hear about that "rumour" of Western Yiddish still spoken in Alsace. Do > you
> know anything more about that? Can you refer me to any sources on the
> web?

There isn't anything earth-shaking, I'm afraid, but here goes:

Judaism in Switzerland
http://areyours.com/e/guide/religion/judaism.html :
  Western Yiddish
  The Jews of the Surb Valley spoke a particular Western Yiddish
dialect,
  traces of which can be still found today in the region, a mix of High
  German dialects, blended with Hebrew and Armenian words, and inklings
  of Romance languages. Contrary to Eastern Yiddish, which is spoken by
  Polish and American Jews, Western Yiddish has almost disappeared.
  Today there are but a scarce few, mostly elderly, who know the dialect
  of the Surb Valley Jews. That is why the University of Zurich Sound
  Archives have begun recording what is left of this language on the
  road to extinction, just as they have done for other Swiss dialects.

Frejlech: Jiddisch, die Mameloschn
http://www.klezmer.at/NEU/Sites/A-frejlech-Reden-mehr.htm :
  Das West-Jiddisch blieb zwar bestehen, wurde bei der Vertreibung der
  Juden unter anderem nach Elsass, Frankreich und Oberitalien getragen
  und erlebte in Deutschland und Österreich - so, wie die deutsche
  Sprache selbst - größere Reformen und endete schließlich in einer
  assimilierten Verstummung. Das Ost-Jiddisch hingegen, das zur
  Hauptsprache der Juden im gesamten osteuropäischen Raum wurde,
  erreichte im Verlauf der Zeit anhand verschiedener Entwicklungen
  die Stufe einer vollausgebildeten Schriftsprache; das allerdings
  erst seit dem frühen 19. Jahrhundert.

Thus, it is reported to be extinct in Germany, but there could still be
remnants in France, Switzerland and Northern Italy.  I have heard of the
variety in Switzerland from a few sources, but rumor has it that it is
very "watered-down" (i.e., Swiss-Germanized, or rather Swiss German with
Yiddish influences).

For a while I, who is particularly interested in the Lowlands angle of
things, followed a tip that "Western Yiddish" is still used in some
communities in the Netherlands and Belgium.  Well, it turned out to be a
red herring; those were Eastern Yiddish varieties imported from Eastern
Europe, more recently influenced by Dutch.

For years now I have been trying to get a copy of the original West
Yiddish version of the autobiography (_Zikhronot_/_Zikhroynes_) of
Glückel (von) Hameln (Glikl Hameln, e.g.,
http://www.jhom.com/personalities/gluckel/,
http://sti1.uni-duisburg.de/Gaeste/Frauen/home.html), a Jewish woman who
was born and raised in Hamburg in the 17th century (1646-1724).  So far
I have only read the translations into English, German and Eastern
Yiddish (the last by Joseph Bernfeld: Glikl Hamil, _Zikhroynes_, Buenos
Aires, 1967).  (There is also a Hebrew translation, an Italian one
[_Roberta Ascarelli, _Le memorie di Glückel von Hameln_], a Hungarian
one [_Glikl Hameln emlékiratai_, 1990], and one in French [Glückel
Hameln: _Mémoires_, Éd. de Minuit, Paris).*  It is absolutely
fascinating reading for anyone interested in Lowlandic and Jewish
history, customs and everyday life as well as in women's studies.
Visiting my native haunts (even my suburb! and Glückel's family's refuge
in Altona, my mother's native place, then a separate city and a relative
safehaven for both Askenazim and Sephardim) through the eyes of a
17th-century Jewish woman made it all the more gripping for me
personally.  Also, Glückel talks of her marriage in Hamlin (Hameln,
hence her name) and of trips to Emden, Groningen and Amsterdam.  If
anyone should ever get their hands on a copy of the original version,
*please* let's talk!

* There is also a theater play based on these memoirs, performed in
Yiddish, Polish, English (_The Memoirs of Glückel of Hameln_,
http://www.atjt.com/Archives/99-00_gluckel.htm) and probably other
languages.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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