LL-L "Grammar" 2002.04.29 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 29.APR.2002 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "Randy Elzinga" <frisiancow at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.04.28 (05) [E]

Whenever I hear or see someone using a plural verb with a collective
noun, I feel like I should be correcting them, although it's usually on
television
or in a book, so I can't really do that.  I was taught in grammar in
grade 7 (and probably before that too, but I don't remember anything
that I was
taught about grammar before grade 7), that collective nouns were
singular
nouns with plural meaning.  This implied to me that, grammatically
speaking, they should have singular verbs.

Could the tendancy towards the exclusive use of the plural be another
example of people tending towards one usage as a misunderstanding of the
'rule', similar to the use of the subject pronoun 'I' when used in
conjuction with another noun or pronoun, regardless of the role of the
pronoun in the sentance?  Ie. People hear collective nouns used with
plural
verbs in some instances, and, because of the plural character of the
nouns,
they assume that plural verbs should be used in all cases.

However, although this is a different point, when certain words like
'bunch'
and 'group', which, I think, are collective nouns, are used followed by
'of
+ pl. noun', the use of a plural verb sounds normal and this is what I
hear
most often, despite the fact that, in omitting the 'of' phrase, a
singular
verb is required.  So, for example, 'A group of students _are_
protesting a
tuition increase', but 'A group _is_ protesting'.  A probable
explaination
for this is the plural nature of words such as 'bunch' and 'group', even
though they are grammatically singular, joined with a phrase containing
a
plural noun makes the subject look grammatically plural.  But what do I
know?  I'm just a mathgeek with no linguistic training, unless you count
the grammar lessons from school.

IJP wrote:
>If I may raise a point I'd wished to raise for a while on the British
>vs.
>American issue - the grammatical issue of 'collective nouns'.
>
>In British English the so-called 'rule' is that 'collective nouns' take
>the
>singular where referring to the unit and plural where referring to a
>collection of individuals acting together.
>
>Therefore:
>'The Government is based in London' but 'The Government are considering
>the
>new proposals'.
>'Arsenal is a football team' but 'Arsenal are ready to sign a new
>forward'.
>'Schweppes is part of the Coca-Cola group' but 'Schweppes are launching
>a
>new recruitment campaign'.
>
>However, I cannot help but think that there is now a discernible
>tendency
>towards the plural in all cases, interestingly one that appears much
>slower
>in (Northern) Ireland than in England.
>
>So for example I read on Ceefax, the BBC Teletext service (Teletext is a
>service established in the 70s with updated news, sport, travel info etc
>accessed via the TV):
>
>'South Korea are building a new stadium'.
>
>South Korea *are* building a new stadium? Sounds totally bizarre to me,
>but
>obviously the underlying ideas is 'the South Koreans are building...'
>
>In my own usage, I still have a tendency towards the singular with 'it'
>and
>'which' in all such instances (ie more or less the American usage).
>
>All comments and observations welcome!
>
>Regards,
>Ian James Parsley

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