LL-L "History" 2002.08.06 (02) [D/E]

Tue Aug 6 21:42:27 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 06.AUG.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2002.08.06 (01) [E/German]

Dear Low- and Leeglanners,

Ron wrote:

> Lowlands-L 09.OCT.2001 (04):
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Place Names
>
> Also of interest to you may be the fact that Teltow-Fläming is on the
> edge of Lower Lusatia (Niederlausitz), and Fläming is often mentioned as
> "Fläming-Spreewald" with reference to the swampy area known in German as
> _Spreewald_ ("(River) Spree Woods") and in Sorbian (Lusatian) as
> _B{l/}ota_ ("The Swamp").  Since that area is or used to be on the
> southeastern edge of the Low Saxon (Low German) area and is also at the
> northwestern edge of Lower Sorbian, a West Slavic language, we ought to
> assume that at the time the migrants from what are now Belgium and the
> Netherlands came into contact with speakers of Saxon and Slavic.
> Therefore, Dutch-Flemish influences on some northern Lower Sorbian
> dialects ought to be considered possible also.  German (i.e., "High"
> German) entered the picture only later in the wake of Germanization, and
> its local dialects have Low Saxon and Slavic influences. Of course,
> there are other areas in Germany with a history of migration from what
> are now Belgium and the Netherlands.  (I deliberately do not say "The
> Low Countries" here because I personally consider Northern Germany a
> part of them, at least culturally and linguistically.)  There are, for
> instance, Friedrichstadt (in the state of Schleswig-Holstein) and Das
> Alte Land (Dat Ole Land ~ Olland, in the states of Hamburg and Lower
> Saxony) which were apparently founded by migrants from the Netherlands.
>
> ===
>
> Gustav Friedrich Meyer, _Unsere plattdeutsche Muttersprache : Beiträge
> zu ihrer Geschichte und ihrem Wesen_, St. Peter-Ording: H. Lührs &
> Dirchs, 1923, reprint 1983, ISBN 3-921416-24-8 (S./p. 33)
>
> [English below]
>
> Wie Ostholstein wurde auch das nördliche Gebiet an der Ostsee
> (Mecklenburg, Vorpommern, Rügen und die Küstenstädte des Ostens)
> vorwiegend von Niedersachsen besiedelt. Aber auch die Niederfranken
> hatten sehr erheblichen Anteil an der Besiedelung, sie lieferten
> besonders die bäuerliche Bevölkerung in den östlichen Landstrichen und
> griffen überall da ein, wo es sich darum handelte, dem Wasser Boden
> abzugewinnen, in den Überschwemmungsgebieten der Flüsse und in den
> Brüchen, wo Deiche und Kanäle gebaut, Sümpfe trockengelegt werden
> mußten, wie in den Oderbrüchen und an der Weichselmündung. Von den
> Fürsten gerufen, wanderten damals die Holländer, Seeländer, Brabanten,
> Flamen zu Tausenden nach "Oostland" und gründeten dort Niederlassungen
> für den Ackerbau.
>
> Die Spuren der Niederländer zeigen sich in der Sprache besonders in den
> n-Formen der Verben und außerdem in Familiennamen wie Fleming, Fleme,
> oder Ortsnamen wie Flemhude, Flämische Straße in Kiel, Rehm bei
> Lütjenburg, Preußisch-Holland (südlich von Elbing).
>
> [My translation]
> As in the case of Eastern Holstein, it was predominantly Saxons that
> settled in the northern regions along the Baltic Sea coast (Mecklenburg,
> Western Pomerania, Rugia [Rügen] and the coastal cities of the east).
> However, Lowlands Franks, too, played a considerable role in this
> settlement movement. They particularly provided the rural population in
> the eastern regions and got involved wherever soil had to be won from
> water, in flood lands along rivers and marshes, wherever dikes and
> canals needed to be built, wherever swamps needed to be drained, as in
> the Oder marshes and around the Vistula delta. Summoned by princes,
> Hollanders, Zeelanders, Brabanters, Flemings then emigrated by the
> thousands to the _Oostland_ [Eastland] and established agricultural
> settlements there.
>
> Linguistic traces of people from the Low Countries can be found
> especially in the _-n_ forms of verbs [in the local Lowlands Saxon
> dialects], furthermore in family names such as Fleming, Fleme, or place
> names such as Flemhude, Flämische Straße in Kiel, Rehm near Lütjenburg,
> Preußisch-Holland (south of Elblag/Elbing).

Being in context with the above:

In the city of "Potsdam", very close to Berlin, You also can see very
strong Dutch influences.
My idea: while looking at the name I always find, it sounds like Dutch,
something like *poot's dam*. But in the historical description I always
find
the name declared as deriving from (slav.) *Potztupimi*, dated on the
year
993 p.C.- pretty early, perhaps too early for that region of Germany?!

Just an incident?

Regards

Fiete.

----------

From: "Luc Hellinckx" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: History

Beste leeglanners,

As I was doing some research regarding Saxon settlement along the North
Sea
Coast I came across this wonderful link :

http://www.yukoncollege.yk.ca/~agraham/nost202/timetables.htm

In short, this is a collection of .pdf files containing the history of
the
northern part of the world.
For those of us, who like to compare northern regions, it's invaluable,
I
think.

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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