LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.06.10 (05) [E]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Mon Jun 10 21:04:33 UTC 2002
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L O W L A N D S - L * 10.JUN.2002 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.06.07 (03) [E]
> From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> Sorry, all of You,
>
> I've tried the "eight" , "ought" , "acht", "eigen", "echt", "ächten".- -
> -
> No one interested at all.
>
> New trial; "Pferd", "Peerd", "Peird", "Paird", but: "horse" (and
> "hengist") in modern English.
Dear Fiete,
In Flemish we have
peird, hors, ors, and ros.
'Hengst' is the male horse and 'merrie' the female.
A 'kacheltje' is a just born horse and a 'veulen - veul'n' is a young
horse.
>
> What about "pair"? They had to go "pairwhise" at most times!
We use the word 'paor' for the number two.
Paorsgewijze= per two.
>
> I don't find any germanic/low saxon origin able to convince me! "HORSE"
> seems much older.
>
> Bis denne
>
> Fiete.
Totton,
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene
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From: Lone Elisabeth Olesen <baxichedda at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.06.08 (04) [E/LS/Z]
Hello all,
As a long time horse affectionado, I was once told
that most "Danish" words to do with horses are
supposed to be loan words from German, but it seems we
got some from Low Saxon... I made up a little list of
the words that seems similar to the other list,
unfortunately I am not good enough at phonetic writing
to add that information.
I also want to ask if anybody has ever heard the
expression "Mohrenkopf" or similar, about a dark grey
horse who still has a black head? It was used in older
Danish imported as "morenkop", but was later
abandoned.
Greetings, Lone Olesen
The first list are the Low Saxon words quoted from
Ron's list, the second is the apparently similar
"Danish" words:
----begin quote----
/hiiz/ Hies [hi:s] ~ /hiiz+k@/ Hieske ['hi:sk@]
'horse' (neut.,
pl. Hies(k)en, specific to Eastern Friesland and
Oldenburg)
/faal/ Fahl ~ Fohl [fQ:l] ~ [fo:l] ~ /faaln/ Fahlen ~
Fohlen [fQ:ln]
~ [fo:ln] (neut., pl. Fahlen ~ Fohlen) 'foal'
/hiNst/ Hingst [hI.Ns(t)] (masc., pl. Hingsten)
'stallion', 'stud
(horse)'
/valak/ Wallak ['va.lak] (masc., pl. Wallaks)
'gelding'
/krak/ Krack [krak] ~ /krük/ Krück [krYk] (fem. ~
neut., pl. Kracken ~
Krücken) 'inferior horse', '(old) nag' (also
'cripple' or 'weakling'
in derogatory reference to humans)
/krüp-n+biit-r/ Krüppenbieter ['krYpm=bi:t3] ~
/krüf-n+biit-r/
Krüppenbieter ['krYfm=bi:t3] 'inferior horse',
'(old) nag'
("crib biter," probably because it is not fed as
well as more able
horses -- sad, but such are country life and the
"good" old days)
/Siml/ Schimmel ['Si.ml=] ~ /Süml/ Schümmel ['SY.ml=]
(masc., pl.
Schimmels ~ Schümmels) 'white/gray horse'
/apl+Siml/ Appelschimmel ['?apl=Si.ml=] ~ /apl+Süml/
Appleschümmel
['?aplSY.ml=] 'dappled (gray) horse' (< Appel
'apple')
/fos/ Voss ~ Voß [fOs] (masc., pl. /fös/ Vöss ~ Vöß
[f9s]) 'chestnut
horse' ("fox")
/maan/ Mahn ~ Mohn [mQ:n] ~ [mo:n] ~ Mähn [me:n] ~
[mE:n] (fem.,
pl. Mahnen ~ Mohnen) 'mane'
/bles/ Bless ~ Bleß [blEs] (fem., pl. Blessen) 'blaze
(of a horse
or cow)'
/houf/ Hoof [ho.Uf] ~ Hauf [ha.Uf] (masc., pl. /höüf/
Hööf ~ Heuf ~
Häuf [h9.If] ~ [hO.If]) 'hoof'
/sadl/ Saddel ['zadl=] ~ /saadl/ Sadel ~ Sodel
['zQ:dl=] ~ ['zo:dl=]
'saddle'
/peird(@)+apl/ Peerappel ~ Pierappel ['pE.I3?apl=] ~
['pi:3?apl=]
("horses' apple") '(piece of) horse dung'
/töögl/ Tögel (masc., pl. Tögel) 'rein'
/toum/ Toom [to.Um] ~ Taum [ta.Um] (masc., pl. /töüm/
Tööm ~ Teum ~
Täum [t9.Im] ~ [tO.Im]) 'bridle'
/toum+wark/ Toomwark ['to.Umva:k] ~ Taumwark
['ta.Umva:k] (neut.)
'bridle (with harness)' (< Wark 'work(s)', 'gear')
/vrinS-/ wrinschen ['vrI.nSn=] ~ /vrünS-/ wrünschen
['vrY.nSn=] ~
/rünS-/ rünschen ['r9.nSn=] ~ /rönS-/ rönschen
['r9.nSn=] 'to neigh'
/riid-/ rieden ['ri:dn=] (ik ried', du rittst, he
ritt, wi riedt ~
rieden;
ik ree(d'); ik heff reden) 'to ride (an animal)'
/draav-/ draven ~ droven ~ droben ['drQ:vm=] ~
['dro:vm=] ~ ['dro:bm=]
'to trot'
/drav(-d)/ Draff [draf] ~ Draft [draft] (masc.) 'trot'
/galop/ Galopp [ga'lOp] (masc.) 'gallop'
/galop-eir-n/ galoppeern [galO'pE.Irn] 'to gallop'
/hüü/ hü! [hy(:)] (1) 'wo hee!' (leftward command);
(2) 'giddy up!',
'gee up!' (forward command)
----end quote----
Horse related words in Danish:
hest (horse)
føl (foal)
fole (young horse, now only literary in use)
fole (to give birth to a foal)
hingst (stallion)
klaphingst (stallion with one testicle)
vallak (gelding)
krikke (old or broken inferior horse)
krybbebider (crib biter - a horse with the habit of
swallowing air, it rests its teeth on the crib to get
the right angle on the throat for doing it. The air
can take up space inside the stomach and the horse
will then eat less and become skinny).
skimmel (blå-, rød-, grå-, brun-, æble-) (greyish
horse, you can add blue-, red-, grey-, brown-, apple-,
to specify which colour of the coat is dominating, a
greyish horse is born red, black or brown and only
later in life it changes colour).
fuks (red horse)
man (mane)
blis (blaze, white line down the head)
hov (hoof)
sadel (saddle)
hestepære (heste-pære= horse-pear= dung)
tøjle (rein for riding horses)
tømme (rein for cart horses)
tømmeværk (harness gear), sounds familiar but I am not
completely sure if that word is used.
vrinske (to neigh)
ride (to ride an animal)
trave (to trot)
trav (trot)
galop (a gallop)
galoppere (to gallop)
hyp / hyphyp (giddy up!)
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon
Lone,
Thanks a lot for the terrific list (above)! Much appreciated.
> As a long time horse affectionado, I was once told
> that most "Danish" words to do with horses are
> supposed to be loan words from German, but it seems we
> got some from Low Saxon...
Isn't this true of most cases of Low Saxon (Low German) loans in
Scandinavian, Baltic, Finnic and Kashubian? They tended to be referred
to as "German" because it used to be the political line to include them
under the label "German." Unless "German" loans are of fairly recent
dates and/or show clear (High) German phonological patterns, I would
always assume that these supposedly "German" loans are in fact Low Saxon
ones, certainly in Scandinavian (somewhat less assuredly so in
Kashubian, Baltic and Estonian, because the Germanic colonizers of those
areas were a mix of German and Low Saxon speakers, and there were some
Dutch and Flemish speakers also.
Thanks again for the list!
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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