LL-L "Names" 2002.06.16 (03) [D/E]

Sun Jun 16 18:49:58 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 16.JUN.2002 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Edwin Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2002.06.15 (02) [E]

At 08:24 PM 06/15/02 -0700, Ron wrote:
>What's in a name anyway?
>By the way, I believe that Reinhard (as in Reynard, the sly fox in the
>medieval Dutch and Low Saxon story) is Saxon, somewhat related to
>English Reginald ... ragin + hart = something like "solid
>counsel(lor)/advisor" (not "pure heart" as assumed by most German
>speakers).

Funny, I would have imagined <regin + ald>, with the <ald> the same as
in
<her-ald>, the "old man of the army".  Another source says that it is
"powerful ruler".  My own name, Edwin, is a mystery to me as well.  This
same source says that it means "valuable friend", but other
possibilities
are "friend of wealth", "wealth winner", "friend of the oath", and more.

Ed Alexander
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

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From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2002.06.15 (01) [E]

Fiete wrote:

> could it be a (Upper german) "Querdamm", what we call in Low Saxon a
> "Kajedeich" ( a dyke lying tansversally to the coastal line)? Because-
> in
> Low german we prefer top say "dwars" for "transverse", but still the
> word
> "dweer" is in use.

The name of this village is quite young; the first time it is
metioned is in 1581. It is a quite litteral name: village was
founded in a polder that was very hard to keep dry because
of a dam across a local water, the Zwake, constantly 'eroded'.
So 'Kwadendamme' refers to a bad, ugly (Dutch _kwaad_)
dam.
Originally there were no 'Querdammen' in Zeeland, so I
don't think that this German word has anything to do with
'Kawèdamme'. The local equivalent of of a 'Querdamm' is
the _pael'oôd_ (litt. 'polehead').
These are rows of wooden poles, strengthened at the bottom
with blocks of basalt to protect the beaches and dunes from
eroding. I think Dutch has _paalhoofd_, but it isn't in the
small Dutch dictionary I have at hand now.

Regards,

Marco

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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2002.06.14 (03) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Names
> Lowlanders,
>
> On a different note, can any of you tell me what the Dutch equivalent of
> the Zeelandic (Zeêuws) place name "Kwaèdamme" is?
dear Ron,
I assume that "kwaèdamme" comes from "kwade dam"
'Kwaad' in general means 'angry',
but there is also another meaning for the word that is not so well
known.
'Kwaad' means also 'klein'
Kwaadieper= little Ieper
Kwaadmechelen= little Mechelen
Kwade straat= Little street, so...
Kwaèdam= little dam

Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2002.06.14 (05) [E/LS]

> Ron wrote:

>> Lowlanders

> <I was just now reminded of Fiete Neumann recently saying he was
> assuming
>> I was using the name _Leegland_ in Low Saxon (Low German) in a jocular
>> manner (since _leeg_ means 'bad', 'inferior'), and I responded that I
>> was only half joking, that _leeg_ still means 'low and flat' in several
>> modern dialects, not only 'inferior'.  I also said that in my opinion
>> the word _Siedland_ does not denote as vast an area as the one to which
>> we refer as "Lowlands" here.
>
>> And now it has just clicked in the old brain: while Low Saxon _Siedland_

Kan Siedland niet komen van zuidland (E Southland) op kaarten altijd
onderaan te zien (laagst)?
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Low Saxon (Low German) also has _kwade_ ~ _quade_ ~ _kwaad(')_ ~
_quaad(')_ 'fierce', 'angry', 'bad', etc.  However, this appears to be
yet another word that is either confined to or solely survives in the
farwestern dialects.  (It was used more extensively in Middle Low
Saxon.)

As far as I know, German _quer_ 'crosswise', 'across', 'diagonal(ly)',
has the Low Saxon cognate _dwars_ [dva:s], where the _-s_ is an
adverbial suffix, and in some dialects also _dweer_ [dve:3`].  German
/kv-/ _qu-_ tends to come from /tv-/ _tw-_ (older _twerch_ for _quer_)
which in some cases developed into /tsv-/ _zw-_ as in _Zwerchfell_
("cross(wise) membrane") 'diaphragm'.  (Note also West Slavic loans such
as *_tvar(e)k_ > _Twark_ > _Quark_ denoting a type of creamcheese.)  Cf.
German _zwingen_ = LS _dwingen_ [dvI.N:] 'to force', G _Zwerg_ = LS
_Dwarg_ [dva:x] 'dwarf', G _Quatsch_ 'nonsense' ~ LS _dwatsch_ [dvatS] ~
[dvatsk] 'silly'.

Luc asked:

> Kan Siedland niet komen van zuidland (E Southland) op kaarten altijd
> onderaan te zien (laagst)?

I don't think so.  Dutch _zuid_ is _süüd_ [zy:t] in LS.  As far as I
know, LS _ie_ (/ii/) and Dutch _ui_ (< old /uu/) never correspond, but
LS _ie_ and D _ij_ (< old /ii/) do.

LS _sied_ [zi:t] (< *siegd_?, cf. German _seicht_) means 'shallow' and
'low-lying', 'sunken', and I am rather inclined to assume it is related
to Modern Dutch _zijgen_ 'to strain', 'to filter', literary (and older?)
'to sink' (< *_ziig_?).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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