LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.06.19 (04) [E]

Wed Jun 19 23:11:12 UTC 2002

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 19.JUN.2002 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 Rules: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/rules.html>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

From: Lone Elisabeth Olesen <baxichedda at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.06.10 (11) [E]

Hello all,
I am somewhat slow in answer - a lot of work these
days...

 R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> wrote
> I (not very familiar with horses and unfortunately
> allergic to them,
> though very appreciative of them) submitted the Low
> Saxon term:
>
> > /krüp-n+biit-r/ Krüppenbieter ['krYpm=bi:t3] ~
> > /krüf-n+biit-r/
> >    Krüppenbieter ['krYfm=bi:t3] 'inferior horse',
> > '(old) nag'
> >    ("crib biter," probably because it is not fed
> as
> > well as more able
> >    horses -- sad, but such are country life and
> the
> > "good" old days)
>
> Lone Olesen (very familiar with horses and probably
> not allergic to
> them) kindly responded with the Danish equivalent:
>
> > krybbebider (crib biter - a horse with the habit
> of
> > swallowing air, it rests its teeth on the crib to
> get
> > the right angle on the throat for doing it. The
> air
> > can take up space inside the stomach and the horse
> > will then eat less and become skinny).
>
> Thanks for clearing that up, Lone.  It's sad enough
> a story, though not
> as sad as the one I had fantasized about (i.e., a
> horse gnawing on the
> wood of a crib for lack of food ...).

[...]

> Some more Low Saxon horse-related words:
>
> /zeel/ Seel [ze:l] ~ [zE:l] 'rope', '(horse's)
> harness' (neut., pl.
>    Selen)
>
> /zeel-n+tüüg/ Selentüüg ['ze:lnty:C] ~ ['zE:lnty:C]
> '(horse's) harness'
>    (neut., uncountable; < + Tüüg 'stuff',
> 'paraphernalia')
>
> /peir(d')+köüp-r/ Peerköper ~ Pierkeuper
> ['pE:I3k9.Ip3] ~ ['pi:3k9.Ip3]
>    'horse dealer' (masc., pl. Peerköpers ~
> Pierkeupers; + Köper 'buyer'
>    < /köüp-/ köpen 'to buy')
>
> /peir(d')+tüxt-r/ Peertüchter ~ Piertüchter
> ['pE:I3tYCt3] ~
>    ['pi:3tYCt3] ("horses cultivator") 'horse
> breeder' (masc., pl.
>    Peertüchters ~ Piertüchters < Tucht [tUXt]
> 'breed' < _teh(g)en_
>    'to pull/raise'; a German loan (Züchter <
> Zucht)?; might Danish
>    _hesteopdrætter_ "horses up-raiser" 'horse
> breeder' be a calque
>    based on older Low Saxon *_peyrdeopteyger_, cf.
> Modern Low Saxon
>    _(up- ~ op-)te(g)hen_ 'to pull/raise (up)', 'to
> raise (children or
>    animals)' (p. part. (ge-)tagen), e.g., Boorn un
> tagen was ik in
>    Hamborg 'I was born and raised in Hamburg')
>
> /peir(d')+stal/ Peerstall ~ Pierstall ['pE:I3sta.l]
> ~ ['pi:3sta.l]
>    'hose stable' (masc., pl. Peerställ ~ Pierställ
> ['pE:I3stE.l] ~
>    ['pi:3stE.l]; Danish _hestestald_; < + Stall
> 'stable')
>
> /peir(d')+deek/ Peerdeek ~ Pierdeek ['pE:I3de:k] ~
> ['pi:3de:k] 'horse
>    blanket' (fem., pl. Peerdeken ~ Pierdeken; cf.
> Danish _hestedækken_;
>    < + Deek 'cover', 'blanket')
>
> /stal+knext/ Stallknecht ['sta.lknEC(t)] 'stable
> hand', 'groom'
>    (masc., pl. Stallknechten; cf. Dutch
> _stalknecht_; < Stall
>    'stable' + Knecht 'servant', 'farmhand' {cognate
> of English
>    "knight"})
>
> /peir(d')+kamer/ Peerkamer ~ Pierkomer ['pE:I3kQ:k3]
> ~ ['pi:3ko:m3]
>    'groom's room (next to the horse stables)' (fem.,
> pl. Peerkamern
>    ~ Pierkomern; < + Kamer ~ Komer 'chamber',
> '(small) room')
>
> Hmmm ... and then there is this _klaphingst_,
> _klophingst_, etc.
> (stallion with one testicle).  I am not familiar
> with this rather
> specialized term (or the condition, and I don't
> understand this
> reference to _kloppen_ 'to knock' or _klappen_ 'to
> knock', 'to clap',
> 'to fold').  I would expect something like
> *_Klopphingst_ or
> *_Klapphingst_ in Low Saxon then, but I do not know
> if it exists.
>
> By the way, _Klapp_ [klap] (fem., pl. _Klappen_) can
> also refer to a
> small stable door (besides 'tailgate', 'flap' or
> '(hinged) lid'), one of
> those that does not cover the entire doorway, fairly
> typical of horse
> stables, I guess.

To begin from the start... it is quite common to
"name" a horse after its bad habits, eg. a restless
horse who takes up the habit of rocking from one front
leg to the other is called a "weaver" (væver in
Danish). But the crib biter might also develop the
habit because it has too little to eat, which
fortunately is not so common nowadays.
It is quite a "revelation" to me to find that most
"Danish" horse words seem to be Low Saxon, I guess
people mostly refer to a German origin because they
don't know the difference, and some words seem to have
come from German - eg. the astmatic horse who is
"engbrystig" - "Engbrüstig" or the rider's legs that
for some reason are "schenkler" even today.

"Seelentüüg" is our "seletøj", and the "Peertüchter"
could be a "hestetugter", but the word "tugte" which
used to be Danish for breeding of both animals and
children has hence become very negative in its
meaning, and if you said it today, it means a person
who teaches the horses some "good manners" by beating
them :-(

About the "klaphingst",
Marco Evenhuis <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl> also wrote
that:

>>>To come back to the 'horse-issue', Ron mentions the
_klaphingst_
or _klophingst_. I already mentioned Zeelandic has the
same word
for this handicaped stallion (with one testicle):
_klop'iengst_. One
would expect it to be a Standard Dutch term as well,
but as far as I
know it isn't.
Zeeuws has the verb _kloppe(n)_ in the meaning of 'to
sharpen
a scythe'. I believe it goes a bit too far to state
that a _klop'iengst_
is a horse that met a well sharpened scythe...<<<

The condition of the stallion is of a medical kind, I
believe the same suffering can happen to humans as
well, when the "working part" of the testicle does not
go from the part in the body where it is created and
down to where it is supposed to be. My "Dansk
etymologisk ordbog" suggests that "klaphingst" has a
connection to "kloppen" from Low Saxon, referring to
the only way the kastration of the poor horse could
take place: knocking with a wooden hammer (!) to
destroy the cord transporting the sperm (it says so in
the dictionary anyway). I think Ron is quite right, it
was not always a good life to be a horse in the "good
old days"...
Greetings, Lone Olesen

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Thanks for sharing your equestrian expertise (above), Lone.

> It is quite a "revelation" to me to find that most
> "Danish" horse words seem to be Low Saxon, I guess
> people mostly refer to a German origin because they
> don't know the difference,

That's right.  And how could they be expected to know any better when
most speakers in Germany didn't even know or at least had believed or
payed lipservice to the line that their language belongs to German (and
the language has all but disappeared among Denmark's "German" [i.e.,
Germanized] minority)?  However, I would expect the distinction to be
made in better Danish dictionaries that provide etymological
information, since it ought to be a well-known fact that Scandinavian
(especially Danish) experienced enormous lexical influx specifically
from Middle Low Saxon (Low German).

> and some words seem to have
> come from German - eg. the astmatic horse who is
> "engbrystig" - "Engbrüstig" or the rider's legs that
> for some reason are "schenkler" even today

The Low Saxon equivalent of that (hwee! another horse term!) is
_amböstig_ ['?a.mb9stIC] ~ _ambostig_ ['?a.mbOstIC].  'Breast' is _Bost_
[bOs(t)], and 'narrow' is _eng_ [?E.N(k)] (or _drang_ [dra.N(k)] in the
sense of 'tight(-fitting)').  I assume *_engböstig_ ~ *_engbostig_
underwent assimilation of the /N/ to the following /b/ = /mb/.  However,
I believe this word can also be used for humans, in the past (or still
now?) perhaps even for 'asthmatic'.

'Thigh' is _Schenkel_ in German and _Schenkel_ ['SE.nkl=] ~ _Schinkel_
['SI.Nkl=] in Low Saxon (besides _Lank_ [la.Nk] and _Lurr_ [lU.3`]), so
*_Schenkler_ ~ *_Schenkler_ would be possible in Low Saxon also (though
I can not vouch for it actually existing).

> but the word "tugte" which
> used to be Danish for breeding of both animals and
> children has hence become very negative in its
> meaning, and if you said it today, it means a person
> who teaches the horses some "good manners" by beating
> them :-(

Interesting!  In German and Low Saxon there are lexical connections
there too (and I don't doubt for one second that training horses pretty
much always amounted to abuse in the past).  However, German _züchten_
and Low Saxon _tügten_ usually refer to actual breeding, while only
_züchtigen_ and _tügtigen_ respectively explicitly denote 'to
train/teach by means of physical punishment' (not only in reference to
animals).

> The condition of the stallion is of a medical kind, I
> believe the same suffering can happen to humans as
> well, when the "working part" of the testicle does not
> go from the part in the body where it is created and
> down to where it is supposed to be.

Yes, this is a not uncommon condition known in English as "undescended
testicle," alternatively as "cryptorchid testicle" and "cryptorchism"
(which nowadays tends to be discovered early and corrected after one
year of age in humans).

> connection to "kloppen" from Low Saxon, referring to
> the only way the kastration of the poor horse could
> take place: knocking with a wooden hammer (!) to
> destroy the cord transporting the sperm (it says so in
> the dictionary anyway).

Ouch!

> I think Ron is quite right, it
> was not always a good life to be a horse in the "good
> old days"...

Or a human!  (But let's not go there.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Incidentally, I was very surprised to learn that I'm allergic to
horses, since I have had next to no contact with them.  Apparently, the
explanation is that when I grew up, upholstery tended to be stuffed with
horse hair.  I know, I know!  I'm kind of dating myself here, but I
assure you it was *after* the bronze age.

==================================END===================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 * Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================