LL-L "Etymology" 2002.06.27 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 27.JUN.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 Rules: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/rules.html>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

From: "luc.hellinckx at pandora.be" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Saxon immigration

Beste leeglanners,

Just a guess...could the "wok" used in "wok-een" (meaning "who") not be
the regional pronounciation of "welk" (D), "which" (E), "welche" (G) ?
I remember hearing people from the southern part of Western Flanders say
:
"Wok esjt ?" which could be translated in :
"Wat is er ?" (D)
"Was ist los ?" (G)
"What's the matter ?" (E)
"Welk" does not exist in my Brabantish either, depending on gender, one
always hears :
"de waezn ?" (M) (male)
"de waes ?" (M) (female)
"t waes ?" (M) (neutral)
This "waes" actually stands for "wiens" (D), and "wie" (D) is
consequently pronounced as "wae" (M).
Also this : I remember reading this relatively new book a year or two
ago that dealt with the subject of how the linguistic border came about
in Belgium...and it stated that one of the earliest waves (there were
several) of colonisation that "struck" Western Belgium happened by sea
and originated in Northern Germany. Unfortunately I cannot exactly
remember the dates but if I must guess I should say this happened
roughly during the third or fourth century (AC), when the Roman empire
was already weakening...not that it was ever very strong felt I think in
those marshes *s*.
When I'm back home I can give you more information regarding that
(interesting) book. The writer's name was something like "Lemaire" or
"Lamarq" I believe...and I think the "Davidsfonds" was a co-promoter.

Greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Luc,

Interesting theory!

_Welk_ [vE.(l)k] ~ _weck_ 'which' does exist in Lowlands Saxon.  Note
the possible deletion of the /l/.  So, I can see that *_welk een_ 'which
one' could change into _wokeen_ 'who'.

However, I vaguely remember someone once advancing a different theory
about _wokeen_.  I'll have to dig around for it.

Ah!  Found it: March 07, 2001, from our good friend Marco Evenhuis, and
it's *not* a different theory but the same:

> > > > From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
> > >
> > > Below the versions in my Limburgish from Vliermaal
> > > (Sorry it's not really an etymological contribution)
> > >
> > > > /(wou)kein/ wokeen ~ keen 'who'
> > > > (cf. /kein(ein)/ keen(een) 'none', 'no one', 'nobody')
> > > > (cf. NL wie, Afr. wie 'who')
> > > > (cf. D wer 'who')
> > > Li: "wi-e"
> > WF: wa('t)
> Z: wie, older form: welkeên; gineên 'none', 'no one'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 * Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================