LL-L "Etymology" 2002.03.13 (01) [D/E]

Wed Mar 13 16:32:50 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 13.MAR.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.03.11 (05) [E/Z]

> > From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Lowlanders,
>
> I wrote:
>
>> Ah!  I believe then that it is related to German _Stutz(en)_ 'short,
>> stubby thing', oftentimes also 'stubby tail'; Middle High German
>> _stotze_ '(short) log', 'stem', 'chunk', _stutze_ '(stubby) beaker', and
>> the verb _stutzen_ 'to trim', 'to clip' (e.g., a tail).
>
> So, I guess the basic meaning is something like 'stub,' which would also
> explain why in Dutch the tailbone (coccyx) is _stuit(je)_.
>
> This whole thing reminds my of German _Knust_ 'heal of a loaf of bread',
> and Low Saxon (Low German) _Knuust_ (Dutch spelling _knoest_) [knu:s(t)]
> 'heal of a loaf of bread', in some dialects also 'knoll', sometimes also
> 'loner', 'lone wolf'.  The _Herkunftsduden_ identifies _Knust_ as North
> German and mentions Middle Low Saxon _knûst_ and Dutch _knoest_ 'gnarly
> growth,' 'knot', 'burl', 'snag', also Danish _knyst_ 'cartilage', 'welt'
> and Old Icelandic _knauss_ 'mountain top'.  Some South German dialects
> have _Knaus_ and Swiss German _(k)chnûs_, but the supposed High German
> adaptation _Knaust_ (of _Knuust_?) is now obsolete.
>
> Usually, Low Saxon has /uu/ <uu/oe> where Dutch has <ui> (e.g., _Huus_ =
> _huis_ 'house'), and Low Saxon has /ou/ <oo/ou> where Dutch has /uu/
> <oe> (e.g., _good_ ~ _goud_ = _goed_ 'good').  So, Dutch having _knoest_
> (see above), Flemish having _knoes_ 'heal of a load of bread', and Low
The Flemish language usually follows the low-Saxon pronounciation.
We say  hus, tun ,juste, kun', buten... The u being between u(E=mud) and
uu(G=Kuchen)
> Saxon (Low German) having _Knuust_/_knoest_ 'heal of a load of bread' --
> all with a long /u/ -- doesn't tally up, and I suspect this to be a loan
> in one or the other language.  Does any of you have any idea about this?
In my 'De Bo' dictionnary I found this:
knoezel= enkel (also knuisel or knusel) E= ankel.
knuist (knuiste, knuuste) = knoest,knor,hobbel,bunt.
  f.i.:een knuiste brood
       een knuist hammevleesch
       De akker ligt in knuisten.
       Een hard gezwel is een knuiste.
       De knuiste van een been.
       Hespeknuist
       Hij is de knuist van zijn vader (E= He is the favourite of his
father): Hij is er de knuist
         al waren er duist.
knuister (knuuster)= hurde: om aardkluiten te breken op de akker.

greatings,
Luc Vanbrabant

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From: "Elsie Zinsser" <ezinsser at simpross.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.03.10 (05) [E]

Dag almal!

Luc mentioned his intrigue with "stuite" or "stute" and asked:
> Do we find that word also in other regions of the lowland country's or
> is it just a typical word for West-Vlaanderen?

We don't have that meaning in Afrikaans. The closest meanings are found
in 'begrafnis stoet' [funeral procession] and in 'stoet bul' [stud bull]

It would not surprise me if all three meanings come from the same root.
Aliv

Regards
Elsie Zinsser

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Elsie wrote (above):

> We don't have that meaning in Afrikaans. The closest meanings are found
> in 'begrafnis stoet' [funeral procession] and in 'stoet bul' [stud bull]
>
> It would not surprise me if all three meanings come from the same root.

So those would be related to Dutch _stoet_ in both cases : (1) _stoet_: geheel
van zich statig voortbewegende personen of voertuigen, _optocht_, _processie_
'procession'; (2) _stoetbul_ 'stud bull' (cf. _stoeterij_: paardenfokkerij
'stud farm (for horses)') (_van Dale woordenboek_)

(3) _stoet_: vloerbrood (_van Dale woordenboek_) 'bread baked on the bottom of
an oven', which appears to be a Low Saxon loan and has cognates like _stuut_
and _stuit_.

_Stoet_ (2) is the cognate of English "stud" ("group of animals used for
breeding") and is related to German _Stute_ 'mare'; cf. Old English _stôd_.*
I wonder if Low Saxon (Low German) _Stoot_ ~ _stout_ [stoUt] 'push', 'knock'
(nominal > verbal _stöten_ ['st9Itn=]) is related to it.  I wonder if _stoet_
(1) is also related to it (a group of people "pushing" forward).

_Stoet_ (3) appears to basically mean 'stub', 'knob' etc., and the type of
bread it denotes got this name because of its shape (oblong and stubby rather
than round bread?).  I just realized that it must be related to English _stud_
in the sense of 'small knob' < Old English _studu_.

* Incidentally, I can't think of a Northern Low Saxon cognate of German
_Stute_ 'mare'.  'Mare' is _Tööt_ (Dutch spelling _teut_) [tø:t] ~ [t9:t]
(plural _Töten_ (Dutch spelling _teutn_) ['tø:tn=] ~ ['t9:tn=], _Fahlenpeerd_
(Dutch spelling _faolnpeird_) ['fQ:lnpEI3t] ("foal horse"), or _Fahlenmähr_
(Dutch spelling _faolnmeer_) ['fQ:lnme:3] ~ ['fQ:lnmE:3] ("foal mare").  The
first part of the latter two is _Fahl(en)_ 'foal' ("juvenile horse"), and the
second part of the last is a cognate of German _Mähre_ and English "mare"
("female horse").

Can anyone think of cognates and the etymology of _Tööt_ (< *_tote_?
*_tate_?)?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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