LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.07 (01) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

Sorry this went out under the wrong subject header ealier. RFH
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From: "luc.hellinckx at pandora.be" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Slee (+ something else)

Hi Ron,

First of all this : During the last month I haven't really been able to
post, because I'm actually cycling in China...from Chengdu to Singapore
to be more precise...my trip will last a few more months, but now and
then I'm able to get a glimpse of (y)our "home" *s* whenever I can get
on the internet...which is now, and I'd like to add my contribution to
the word "slee".
In my Brabantish dialect the word (pronounced somewhat like slieje) the
word is used in two situations; first and foremost when a person is not
feeling completely allright, and he is looking a little pale it is said
that he is looking "slieje"...if I remember well, I looked up the
etymology of the word, and I think it is actually the same as the
English word "slow".
Secondly, but far less in use, it is also used for teeth that are
feeling wry (oops, I'm not sure if I'm using the word wry
correctly)...teeth that give a lot of friction when they are being
squeezed against one another...I seem to remember there is a connotation
with horse's teeth...but I'd have to look that up, which I'm unable to
do now...
Oh yes, I almost forgot; instead of "a double edged sword" or something
similar, we say : "Daane ze mes sned longst twieje kantn".
I wish you all the best...

Luc Hellinckx

PS : I've had to think about you quite often as I have never ever in my
life seen so many "yokes" in my life as here in China...where it is
still very much "alive and kicking".*s*

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From: Muriel Norde <muriel.norde at hum.uva.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.04 (10) [D/E/LS]

At 17:00 4-5-2002 -0700, Wim verdoold wrote:
>Verder hebben we een boom genaamd Sleedoorn, met vruchten die dus slee
>zijn
>en je tanden slee maken, net als cola , of als zure druiven.

And Niels Winther wrote:

>it is most problably related to Eng.<sloe> Dan.<slåen> Dut.<slee>
>i.e. Prunus spinosa; the most astringent of all fruits I believe,
>at least before the first frost.

Dutch _slee_ in _sleedoorn_ and the adjective meaning "blunt" appear to
have different origins. The noun _slee_, also meaning 'prune', is
cognate
with English _sloe_ , German _Schlehe_, and Swedish _slån_, all deriving
from a Proto-Germanic root _*slaihwo:n_. The word is also related to  to
similar words in Slavic languages, as Ron already suggested (cf.
_slivovitsj_), and to Latin _livor_ "bluish colour" and Welsh _lliw_
"colour", so the original meaning might have been "something "bluish".
_Sleedoorns_ are blue berries.

The adjective _slee_ "harsh, dull, slow", on the other hand, is related
to
English _slow_  (Old English _sla:w_) and Swedish _slö_ (cf. Old Norse
_sljo:r_) and derives from Proto-Germanic _*slaiwa-_.

So even though the noun and the adjective are homonyms and _sleedoorns_
might make your teeth _slee_ (I never tried them), there is no
etymological
connection.

Wim also wrote:

>(Doorn is
>een
>oud woord voor boom. Tre in het Scandinavisch is het zelfde woord) (Duur
>is
>ook het zelfde woord. In de betekenis van hard als eikenhout.)

I am not sure if all this is true. _Doorn_ simply means "thorn" and none
of
my etymological dictonaries give "tree" as an older meaning. It is the
same
word as English _thorn_ and Swedish _törne_  (Old Swedish _thörne_). It
is
by no means etymologically related to "Scandinavian"  _tre_ (you
probably
mean Norwegian, cf. Danish _træ_, Swedish _träd_, Icelandic _tré_),  or
English _tree_. Note the different initial consonants: in older Germanic
languages and in Modern English the words for "thorn" have fricative
_th_
(_þ_) whereas the words for "tree" have  _t_.
I do not know _duur_ in the sense of "hard als eikenhout" but its origin
must be Latin _durus_ "hard, solid". I do not have a Latin etymological
dictionary at hand, but _durus_ might be related to Greek words for
"tree"
or "wood" and these might be cognate with English _tree_, Norwegian
_tre_
etc, so there may be a connection. But as Wim already noted, this is
becoming off-topic.

Muriel Norde

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